Electronic Stethoscope

A

Alun

Jan 1, 1970
0
audioguru said:
Hi Alun,
I wouldn't use a dual MC1458 nor LM358 dual opamp as the low level microphone preamp in this project. They are much too noisy.
I never mentioned the LM358.

The 741 isn't too noisy, it's 23nV/root(Hz) and the TL072 isn't that much better at 18nV/root(Hz). The main source of distortion in the 741 is the slew rate rather than anything else and this won't affect things much in this circuit as it's only low bandwidth.
 

audioguru2

Apr 6, 2004
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Hi Alun,
I've never seen a spec for noise for a 741 opamp. Motorola's dual 741 is their MC1458 and is spec'd at more than double the noise of a low noise TL072:

View attachment 37940

 
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MP1

Dec 7, 2003
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Noise specs reallly don't mean much in a circuit that gives you a beep beep or a thump thump. Now if the person has swallowed a radio, and you must hear the football game or latest concert, then I agree 100% to the updated op-amps.  Make 2 such circuits for stereo effect.  ;D

Have fun uh3455!

MP

 
A

Alun

Jan 1, 1970
0
I agree MP, (in fact I was just about to say) fidelity simply isn't an issue here.

 

audioguru2

Apr 6, 2004
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MP said:
Noise specs reallly don't mean much in a circuit that gives you a beep beep or a thump thump.
Real doctors are using this project. A doc used to using a mechanical stethoscope with no noise whatsoever, is in for a big surprise if he hears noise from a noisy old opamp.

I don't think docs use a stethoscope to hear if the patient's heart is beating, that is obvious. He is listening to the particular sounds from the heart that would be masked if there was noise from the opamps.
 
A

Alun

Jan 1, 1970
0
How much noise can you hear from a TL072?

Even if you doubled it, it wouldn't sound twice as loud due to the ear's logarithmic response - I bet it wouldn't sound any worse than the background hiss on a cassette.

 

audioguru2

Apr 6, 2004
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The lowpass filter would reduce any hiss, so I think noise from an opamp would sound like a rumble.

 

MP1

Dec 7, 2003
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Real doctors are using this project. A doc used to using a mechanical stethoscope with no noise whatsoever, is in for a big surprise if he hears noise from a noisy old opamp.
The low pass you have put on the front end of your revised circuit kills any noise specs that might show up. Noise is found in the higher frequency ranges. That is why many music noise cutting circuits employ low pass features. Many noise gates are high pass cut circuits and noise removal on analog bucket brigade delay lines are sharp cut low pass filters. High frequencies are easy to amplify. Low frequencies are not. You would have to highly amplify low frequencies to make them more noticable than the amplified sound signal.

Real Medical Doctors are using much more expensive equipment than this project......why would they bother with getting out a solder iron and making something like this? As far as I understand, Doctors spend their off-time playing golf. Not making op-amp circuits.

Oh, by the way....These circuits are for fun...the manufacturer of these parts does not allow for their use in medical equipment. You are supposed to purchase special ICs for this purpose. The manufacturer has a medical disclaimer on all their components except the ones which go through more rigorous testing and which are deemed as components worthy of medical use. If you see a doctor using one of these home made devices, he is violating some basic rules......run! He is not a qualified doctor.

MP
 
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audioguru2

Apr 6, 2004
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MP said:
The low pass you have put on the front end of your revised circuit ...
I didn't add the lowpass filter in this project. I just corrected the original circuit's filter that was missing a solder joint on its schematic. The author states in the text that his lowpass filter is used to remove background sounds picked-up by the microphone.

Noise is found in the higher frequency ranges.
Not true. The noise from opamps increases at lower frequencies used by this project. Manufacturers describe the "burst" noise as "popcorn" and "shot" noises which would distract and mask sounds of the heart.

Real Medical Doctors are using much more expensive equipment than this project
A few real doctors have enquired about this project and have built it and use it successfully using the recommended low-noise opamps.

the manufacturer of these parts does not allow for their use in medical equipment.
The disclaimer avoids law-suits if their part fails and causes a wrong diagnosis: "The heart stopped, give it a jolt! No it didn't, the opamp stopped".
;D View attachment 37959

 

MP1

Dec 7, 2003
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This is where I get off the merry-go-round....


MP

 

xoy

Mar 3, 2005
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hi!!!
i cant find the 0.047uF/50V Metalized plastic-film Capacitor,
instead i buy the  mylar capacitor with that same values... is it okay???

 

audioguru2

Apr 6, 2004
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Hi Xoy,
Mylar is a plastic film. A mylar capacitor is a metalized plastic film one. It is fine.
I spec'd metallized plastic film caps so people wouldn't use ceramic caps that have a very wide tolerance (+80%, -20%). My European plastic caps have a 5% tolerance. ;D

You could use Oriental "green caps" (I've also seen shiny reddish-brown ones) which are metallized plastic film, but if they are marked "M" then they are 20%. K is 10% and J is 5%.

A European metallized plastic film cap with a value of 0.047uF is marked 47nF. Oriental ones are marked 473.

 

xoy

Mar 3, 2005
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it is marked 473.. so it means it is ok to use... thanks!!!

 

MP1

Dec 7, 2003
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Saroona,
It is a simple amplifier circuit with a frequency filter.

MP

 

ante1

Jan 24, 2004
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MP,

From the post I think saroona wanted to know how it works not what it is (that part is pretty clear)!

 

MP1

Dec 7, 2003
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Ante,

I think amplification and filtering is "How" it works. Perhaps you are correct that he is looking for the theory behind the circuit or a more in-depth explanation of how op-amps work. What I think is pretty clear is that he has already read the description and still came here to ask how it works. Someone simply telling him to go back and read the description is rather insulting.

MP

 

narmadha

Jan 22, 2006
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hi.. i am an engineering student from india. i started this e-steth project recently..i coudn't  understand the phone jack connection.. and where should we connect the ear piece of steth?or can i replace the earpiece with thehead phone connected from the phone jack? more over here i coudn't get a phone jack...iam sending a photo of what they ive as phone jack here in india...please reply me whether it is correct or not...

View attachment 38307

 

narmadha

Jan 22, 2006
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hi
i am doing e-steth only.not the 2nd version..but still i am confused with phone jack..so what i say is can i replace the phone jack connections with a head phone? so that i can use it instead of the ear pieces of the stethoscope....thanks for ur kind reply

 

narmadha

Jan 22, 2006
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yeah....but a very interesting work to do with a phone jack....yes i saw the discussions...but i am doubted only i see a wrong phone jack and probably thought the one in india is different... :D

 
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