MIT primed to unleash solar revolution

[J. Clarke]

Tale your pick. Plenty of hydrocarbons work very nicely and modern
ECUs can deal with all sorts of mixes of them.

Try again. Identify a renewable liquid fuel. If you cannot do so
then why are you asserting that one can be used for all eternity? Or
are you just saying that we should ignore a problem that we know is
coming in the hope that when it does come about whoever is alive then
should deal with it?

I haven't a clue what you mean. 'Gas tanks' do not in reality 'blow
up' as in Hollywood movies. They have to simulate that.

I mean how is the damage to that airplane worse than what happens when
a fuel tank catches fire? It is a simple question and if you cannot
understand it you have a problem.

If you want to see what really happens in a car crash buy or rent
the
film 'Ronin'. It's a cracking film to begin with and also makes the
car chases in Bullitt look absurdly tame.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/
Awards: 1 win & 3 nominations

I've seen it. So what? It's a movie, it has nothing to do with
objective reality.

 

[J. Clarke]

I was referring to the hopeless and vapid press releasee by MIT, not
solar specifically.

Please provide a quotation from a "hopeless and vapid press release by
MIT" that suggest that they are asserting a "need to panic".

 

[J. Clarke]

Ask Sasol. They're still doing it right now IIRC. Originally to get
round sanctions.

So what are they charging?

 

[News]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html

'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution
Scientists mimic essence of plants' energy storage system

Anne Trafton, News Office
July 31, 2008

OK this splits water into oxygen and hydrogen - not new. Then it is used to
run a fuel cell - not new. The fuel cell is a buffer.

What must be new is that is uses a small amount of electricity to split the
water. Is that so? If so, are there any figures released?

If it uses a small amount of electricity to split water then maybe this can
be used in autos. Produce oxygen and hydrogen overnight, or at work, and
run a fuel cell to power the car. If the electricity is so small to split
and make the gasses, then maybe a battery can do it, or a solar cell auto
roof.

This report is useless unless it at least gives some figures to real world
use.

 

[News]

OK this splits water into oxygen and hydrogen - not new. Then it is used
to run a fuel cell - not new. The fuel cell is a buffer.

What must be new is that is uses a small amount of electricity to split
the water. Is that so? If so, are there any figures released?

If it uses a small amount of electricity to split water then maybe this
can be used in autos. Produce oxygen and hydrogen overnight, or at work,
and run a fuel cell to power the car. If the electricity is so small to
split and make the gasses, then maybe a battery can do it, or a solar cell
auto roof.

This report is useless unless it at least gives some figures to real world
use.

More information from reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3145191020080731?sp=true

"Nocera's catalyst is made from cobalt, phosphate and an electrode that
produces oxygen from water by using 90 percent less electricity than current
methods, which use the costly metal platinum."

So, getting better. 90% less electricity to do it. Still vague in real world
running cost predictions. Also, cheaper to make!!! More encouraging.

The PV cell on the roof and fule cell, may be only viable in the sunbelts.

Being a closed loop is good idea too. Reuters say 5 years to seeing it in
use.

 

[Eeyore]

Well, now, in CA it costs about 25 cents more per 65 miles of travel
than does gasoline.

You must be getting some amazingly cheap hydrogen. BTW, you do realise
most is made from hydrocarbons I hope so it does nothing to reduce your
carbon footprint.

That's hardly "insane". You have not identified
any safety risks that are significantly different from those
associated with gasoline.

Tank explosions.

Yes, I have and your repeating this ad nauseum does not change the
outcome, which is that the plane landed safely.

With a sodding great hole in it. I've also seen a pic of what a similar
tank did to a Toyota Hilux. It blew it apart. I doubt you'd survive.

See what a damaged gasoline tank did to numerous B-17s and B-24s and
Lancasters and whatnot during WWII. It was a lot worse than what that
oxygen bottle did.

That's because they were being fired at with bullets you twit.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Try again. Identify a renewable liquid fuel.

I won't even answer such an absurdly ridiculous question.

Have you just come out of some time warp, or are you a space alien.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Please provide a quotation from a "hopeless and vapid press release by
MIT" that suggest that they are asserting a "need to panic".

You're quoting me out of context. Grow up.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

So what are they charging?

Why not ask them. Or do some damn research yourself instead of spouting
crap.

Here's a starter or 2 .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_synthesis

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Solar is still not economically viable.

I agree.

When Nanosolar start selling to the general market, we'll see if that's
changed any.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Why do you keep referring to that one recent event? When was the last
time a plane had an oxygen bottle blow a hole in the side of it? The
one before that? How many passenger miles between events?

Do you know how carefully they are handled and how often they are tested ?

Do you expect the same in an automotive environment ?

BTW, most hydrogen is made from hydrocarbon sources and releases plenty of CO2
in its manufacture.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

OK this splits water into oxygen and hydrogen - not new. Then it is used to
run a fuel cell - not new. The fuel cell is a buffer.

What must be new is that is uses a small amount of electricity to split the
water. Is that so? If so, are there any figures released?

It's very slightly more efficient than the current best by maybe around 10%.

If it uses a small amount of electricity to split water then maybe this can
be used in autos. Produce oxygen and hydrogen overnight, or at work, and
run a fuel cell to power the car. If the electricity is so small to split
and make the gasses, then maybe a battery can do it, or a solar cell auto
roof.

Did you ever learn physics ?

This report is useless unless it at least gives some figures to real world
use.

Agreed.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

More information from reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3145191020080731?sp=true

"Nocera's catalyst is made from cobalt, phosphate and an electrode that
produces oxygen from water by using 90 percent less electricity than current
methods, which use the costly metal platinum."

Complete bollocks. Trust journalists to **** up.

Trust YOU not see the bleeding obvious mistake.

Graham

 

[J. Clarke]

Why not ask them. Or do some damn research yourself instead of
spouting crap.

Here's a starter or 2 .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_synthesis

Neither has costs.

 

[J. Clarke]

Do you know how carefully they are handled and how often they are
tested ?

Why don't you tell us?

Do you expect the same in an automotive environment ?

Do you expect tankage used in an automotive environment to have to be
as flimsy as that used on airplanes? When a Honda FCX explodes and
does more damage than a gasoline fire get back to us.

BTW, most hydrogen is made from hydrocarbon sources and releases
plenty of CO2 in its manufacture.

Who said anything about CO2?

 

[Eeyore]

Neither has costs.

So research. Like finding out the cost of gasoline in South Africa.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Why don't you tell us?

Why don't you learn ?

Do you expect tankage used in an automotive environment to have to be
as flimsy as that used on airplanes? When a Honda FCX explodes and
does more damage than a gasoline fire get back to us.

FLIMSY !

You're a crackpot.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Here is a document discussing the effiencies of hydrogen processes vs.
batteries

http://www.efcf.com/reports/E04.pdf

Nicely explained.

Graham

 

[J. Clarke]

So research. Like finding out the cost of gasoline in South Africa.

It's 21 times the price in Venzuela. So what?

 

[J. Clarke]

Why don't you learn ?

You're the one making the assertion. If you can't back it up then
it's bullshit.

FLIMSY !

You're a crackpot.

Patently transparent attempt avoid addressing the paucity of massive
hydrogen explosions.