OT: Play regular MPEG on a DVD Player?

[Joerg]

Ok, maybe there is no such thing as an international MPEG standard. The
situation:

Whenever we try to play a DVD from Europe it does not work. Nothing
illegal here, just old movies that were never available here and never
will be because they are in foreign languages and, well, too "boring"
for youngsters. Then wedding recordings and such.

On the PC all this plays just fine. The DVD spits it back out either
with a wrong region message or it tries and tries (letting off some
weird chirping noises from the drive) and spits it out with some other
error message. Aren't those things to play regular MPEG just like PCs?
At least that's what it says in the manual. I've also tried PAL-NTSC
conversions and that didn't fly.

The setup here: Magnavox BDP170 upconverting player via HDMI cable into
the TV. So it should be able to play stuff that isn't NTSC. I've tried
lots of formats from VLC Player such as mp2v and whatnot (if someone
knows which one works let me know). Nothing worked here so far. Is the
only option really to convert to NTSC or to schlepp the PC into the
living room? Wasn't DVD supposed to do away with all this?

 

[Frank Buss]

On the PC all this plays just fine. The DVD spits it back out either
with a wrong region message

At least the region problem can be solved. You can try Google:

http://www.google.de/search?q=Magnavox+region+unlock

But try it with a browser in a virtual machine, some webpages of the result
might be dangerous.

 

[mpm]

Ok, maybe there is no such thing as an international MPEG standard. The
situation:

Whenever we try to play a DVD from Europe it does not work. Nothing
illegal here, just old movies that were never available here and never
will be because they are in foreign languages and, well, too "boring"
for youngsters. Then wedding recordings and such.

On the PC all this plays just fine. The DVD spits it back out either
with a wrong region message or it tries and tries (letting off some
weird chirping noises from the drive) and spits it out with some other
error message. Aren't those things to play regular MPEG just like PCs?
At least that's what it says in the manual. I've also tried PAL-NTSC
conversions and that didn't fly.

The setup here: Magnavox BDP170 upconverting player via HDMI cable into
the TV. So it should be able to play stuff that isn't NTSC. I've tried
lots of formats from VLC Player such as mp2v and whatnot (if someone
knows which one works let me know). Nothing worked here so far. Is the
only option really to convert to NTSC or to schlepp the PC into the
living room? Wasn't DVD supposed to do away with all this?

The software program "DVD Shrink" will remove the regional player
setting and allow you to make copies of the disk that will play in any
region.

-mpm

 

[Martin Brown]

Ok, maybe there is no such thing as an international MPEG standard. The
situation:

Whenever we try to play a DVD from Europe it does not work. Nothing
illegal here, just old movies that were never available here and never
will be because they are in foreign languages and, well, too "boring"
for youngsters. Then wedding recordings and such.

On the PC all this plays just fine. The DVD spits it back out either
with a wrong region message or it tries and tries (letting off some
weird chirping noises from the drive) and spits it out with some other
error message. Aren't those things to play regular MPEG just like PCs?
At least that's what it says in the manual. I've also tried PAL-NTSC
conversions and that didn't fly.

The setup here: Magnavox BDP170 upconverting player via HDMI cable into
the TV. So it should be able to play stuff that isn't NTSC. I've tried
lots of formats from VLC Player such as mp2v and whatnot (if someone
knows which one works let me know). Nothing worked here so far. Is the
only option really to convert to NTSC or to schlepp the PC into the
living room? Wasn't DVD supposed to do away with all this?

Yes, but region coding and copyright management stuff gets in the way.

Next time you are in the London elctronic district buy a chipped
version of DVD player and you can play just about anything. They even
chipped the DVD player for the ISS (a criminal act in the USA of
course).

You might be able to find how to make a given model of player region
free by poking around on the net. Quite a lot of players in the UK are
chipped or easily chippable since we don't like waiting ages for PAL
DVD releases (or being ripped off by the £1 = $1 exchange rate.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[James Beck]

The software program "DVD Shrink" will remove the regional player
setting and allow you to make copies of the disk that will play in any
region.

-mpm

Several of the DVD decripters do the same thing.
My LG player doesn't give a crap what region or encoding is used.
I have several "PAL" European region disks that work like a charm.

 

[Joerg]

At least the region problem can be solved. You can try Google:

http://www.google.de/search?q=Magnavox+region+unlock

But try it with a browser in a virtual machine, some webpages of the result
might be dangerous.

I had looked for that but it never lists our model. Also, you've got to
be careful. With many players they won't let you set it to "all" and you
can change the region code only x times, with x << 10. After that the
thing locks up for good and the warranty is toast because they can
extract from flash what you have tried to do. Lots of pitfalls there.

 

[Joerg]

The software program "DVD Shrink" will remove the regional player
setting and allow you to make copies of the disk that will play in any
region.

Ok, thanks, I'll check that out. Doesn't look like it converts PAL ->
NTSC though:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/dvdshrink31-main.htm

 

[Joerg]

Several of the DVD decripters do the same thing.
My LG player doesn't give a crap what region or encoding is used.
I have several "PAL" European region disks that work like a charm.

Interesting. Is a PAL MPEG playing with a distorted image or the audio
pitch shifted?

IMHO this whole region business is stupid. It cuts out any
inter-cultural exchange. Our rental place does carry the occasional
foreign language tape or CD but most old movies never make it into the
US. I really like VCR tape a lot, none of this region blocking stuff.
It's simply better. Like analog TV ...

 

[Joerg]

Yes, but region coding and copyright management stuff gets in the way.

Next time you are in the London elctronic district buy a chipped
version of DVD player and you can play just about anything. ...

But then it would output PAL standard and our TV won't take it. I guess.
No idea how HDMI plays into that.

... They even
chipped the DVD player for the ISS (a criminal act in the USA of
course).

Whoops. But I assume that "lapse" will be papered over ...

You might be able to find how to make a given model of player region
free by poking around on the net. Quite a lot of players in the UK are
chipped or easily chippable since we don't like waiting ages for PAL
DVD releases (or being ripped off by the £1 = $1 exchange rate.

Well, I don't even want to do that. Other than some really old movies we
don't watch much. Just want to be able to see stuff like a relative's
birthday video, weddings and such.

 

[James Beck]

Interesting. Is a PAL MPEG playing with a distorted image or the audio
pitch shifted?

IMHO this whole region business is stupid. It cuts out any
inter-cultural exchange. Our rental place does carry the occasional
foreign language tape or CD but most old movies never make it into the
US. I really like VCR tape a lot, none of this region blocking stuff.
It's simply better. Like analog TV ...

Nope, because with a DVD it really doesn't matter.
It is just another flag that gets set in the software, kinda' like
another region setting. How would my HDMI output even know what PAL is?
I have never used the NTSC out, it might be trashed, but I doubt it.
I didn't know about the LG being so promiscuous until I picked up a
Region 2/PAL disk at a flea market and popped it in my Toshiba player.
It bitched, I tried it in my LG player and it worked like a charm. I
thought that it might be doing the 'ol limited number of region swaps,
but I have played enough of a mix that it would have locked onto a
region by now, if that were the case. I recently replaced my Toshiba
HD-DVD player with a BluRay/HD-DVD/DVD combo unit from Samsung, I
haven't tried any of the "PAL" disks in it yet, I guess I might grab one
tonight and see what happens.
I'm a video junkie, so I really enjoy my flat screen HD systems, along
with the digital cable and high def DVDs. However, I still have a high
end Toshiba VCR hooked up for all the tapes in the library too.

 

[Joerg]

Nope, because with a DVD it really doesn't matter.
It is just another flag that gets set in the software, kinda' like
another region setting. How would my HDMI output even know what PAL is?
I have never used the NTSC out, it might be trashed, but I doubt it. ...

Aha, thanks. Since we are also using HDMI out it might actually work.
What was strange though was that when I placed a single brief MPEG file
onto a CD it was unable to recognize it. Guess it really does need an
IFO file. Strange, because it means you can't watch a motley collection
of vacation video unless you author the DVD properly.

I didn't know about the LG being so promiscuous until I picked up a
Region 2/PAL disk at a flea market and popped it in my Toshiba player.
It bitched, I tried it in my LG player and it worked like a charm. I
thought that it might be doing the 'ol limited number of region swaps,
but I have played enough of a mix that it would have locked onto a
region by now, if that were the case. ...

Those can lock after merely inserting a "wrong" disk x times? That would
probably be a case for an AG.

... I recently replaced my Toshiba
HD-DVD player with a BluRay/HD-DVD/DVD combo unit from Samsung, I
haven't tried any of the "PAL" disks in it yet, I guess I might grab one
tonight and see what happens.
I'm a video junkie, so I really enjoy my flat screen HD systems, along
with the digital cable and high def DVDs. However, I still have a high
end Toshiba VCR hooked up for all the tapes in the library too.

We only watch the evening news and the occasional 40's or 50's movie.
But we'd like to be able to enjoy foreign language ones as well.

 

[AnimalMagic]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:36:24 -0500, James Beck

snip

Nope, because with a DVD it really doesn't matter.
It is just another flag that gets set in the software, kinda' like
another region setting. How would my HDMI output even know what PAL is?

Are Euro DVD players with HDMI output feeding Euro TVs with HDMI input
playing Euro region discs? Are those players not configured differently
by nature of their region alone?

I have never used the NTSC out, it might be trashed, but I doubt it.
I didn't know about the LG being so promiscuous until I picked up a
Region 2/PAL disk at a flea market and popped it in my Toshiba player.
It bitched, I tried it in my LG player and it worked like a charm. I
thought that it might be doing the 'ol limited number of region swaps,
but I have played enough of a mix that it would have locked onto a
region by now, if that were the case. I recently replaced my Toshiba
HD-DVD player with a BluRay/HD-DVD/DVD combo unit from Samsung, I
haven't tried any of the "PAL" disks in it yet, I guess I might grab one
tonight and see what happens.

LG makes a NICE multi-format capable PC reader drive that is really
nice too.

I'm a video junkie, so I really enjoy my flat screen HD systems, along
with the digital cable and high def DVDs.
Nice.

However, I still have a high
end Toshiba VCR hooked up for all the tapes in the library too.

How sad for you.

I refuse to go back any further than LaserDisc. Heheheh! I still have
tapes, and may dig out an old VCR and look at them once more before I
trash them, but I doubt I have anything I don't have on LD or DVD by now.
I never had camcorders, so I do not have any self made stock, per se.
I had a bunch of SCTV recordings once... I have about 17 tapes filled up
with The Gulf War / Desert Storm stuff. I doubt it has any value though,
except to prove that we got screwed by big oil then too.

 

[Joerg]

If you want to do a little experimenting, Joerg, pick up a Philips DVP5990
(Walmart) or DVP5992 (Costco) -- about $60 -- and make the thing region free
using the instructions in the first review here:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-DVP5992-1080p-Upscaling-Player/dp/B001AXBGZO .

The firewall caught some weird script being started on that link and
froze it. Hmm ...

That review also has links to a firmware upgrade that fixes a few bugs and
adds some new features. I can't tell for certain, but it seems to suggest
that PAL playback is supported.

The DVP5990/2 also supports playback from a USB memory stick (or hard drive),
so if your relatives start pointing you to 100MB .mpg files to download, you'd
often be set as well.

Ok, thanks, but we just bought a new upconverting player from Magnavox
(which AFAIK is Philips). Says it'll play MPEG even from DVD-RW and
CD-RW. But sometimes things like that are mere marketing embellishments.
I'll find out.

While researching MPEG a bit last weekend I am under the impression that
it may not be internationally standardized.

 

[Joerg]

I think the bigger problem might be that most players can only playback a
subset of the full-blown MPEG standard, i.e., there are significant
limitations on maximum resolution, bit rate, encoding style (PAL/NTSC), etc.

Yep, looks like it. And their "error messages" are typically useless,
containing at the most the information "I don't like this disk".

The software industry and the shareware guys have done a far better job.
For example, media players such as VLC take in just about anything that
smells like MPEG and render it correctly. Regardless of where it came
from. They simply work. DVD player technology is far behind.

I am quite surprised that the industry fails to recognize that there is
a huge market for an all-in-one media box. IOW a PC for the media
cabinet in the living room. Right now it's all nerdware, you pretty much
have to be able to fly a spacecraft to piece one together yourself. Plus
it's huge, loud (fans) and has a paltry WAF unless it can be hidden
behind some paneling or doors.

 

[AnimalMagic]

The firewall caught some weird script being started on that link and
froze it. Hmm ...

Not from Amazon, idiot. You have your firewall setup screwed up.

 

[AnimalMagic]

While researching MPEG a bit last weekend I am under the impression that
it may not be internationally standardized.

Bwuahahahahahahaha!

 

[Joerg]

The biggest problem with an all-in-one media box is that the "killer feature"
everyone wants is to be able to stick in their DVD (or Bly-Ray disc), hit
"copy to internal storage," wait 5 minutes, and then return the DVD to their
bookshelf and still be able to view the DVD from anywhere in the house at any
point in the future.

That would clogs even the biggest hard drives in a jiffy. 5-10GB per
movie is a lot of gigabytes.

Unfortunately, the "copy to internal storage" functionality is illegal in the
U.S. :-(

Except that if people really wanted to do that they already can. On
their PC.

I've read that Apple TV has had some modest success... and if anything, Apple
knows how to build "stylish" products.

But unfortunately when it comes to computing theirs are rather
incompatible products.

 

[AnimalMagic]

That would clogs even the biggest hard drives in a jiffy. 5-10GB per
movie is a lot of gigabytes.

That is just a regular DVD. HD and BD are up to 50GB per title.

Except that if people really wanted to do that they already can. On
their PC.

That does not change the legality factor. He was referring to PC
extraction methodologies, dope.

But unfortunately when it comes to computing theirs are rather
incompatible products.

Bunch of crap. Linux has players that can decode BD discs, there are HD
DVD and BD readers for PCs that come with movie software to watch films
from either HD format.

Extraction to hi res dixv, etc. is no problem.

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

[...]

I'm interested to see if Mark Shuttleworth ever manages to make money off of
Ubuntu, since he clearly seems to be of a mindset that he can and desires to
do so, yet of course is also a strong proponent of the whole open-source
software model (and as of now is spending some millions of his own money per
year to keep Canoncial going). I.e., it'll be a good case for, "can you keep
your technology open and still make money?"

You're probably not a fan of the government bailout of Detroit I take it, yes?

Not much of a believer in bailouts. Same when I lived in Germany, I
never understood the fact that Volkswagen is partially government-run.
Heck, there even is a Volkswagen law which was attacked by the Brussels
bureaucrats, and rightfully so. And you know where I stand with respect
to Brussels bureaucrats.

Especially after all three executives who left from and arrived at the exact
same airports each felt they needed their very own chartered jet?

Yeah, that blew my mind. It's like a guy asking for welfare and pulling
up in a limo. What were they thinking?

 

[Joerg]

I fugure that if the government has some billions lying around that could
potentially be used as a bailout, it's far better to let the automakers fail
if they can't compete... and use those monies for worker re-education (student
loans), unemployment benefit extensions if needed, etc... so that they can go
and find new jobs with a company that *does* know how to compete.

Problem is the money isn't lying around. We will have to pay that back
for many years to come. IMHO it can be used much better to foster
self-employment. People need to learn _not_ to rely on cradle-to-grave
security from a big employer. Those days are gone and they won't come
back. Just like the Roman Empire didn't. In Germany they did have such a
program called "Ich-AG" or in English it would be "Me, Inc.". One person
enterprises. Often belittled by the leftist media but guess what, it did
start quite a few successes.