[Joel Kolstad]

How can you be convinced of something that would be illegal?

I meant that if the people in question had ham radio licenses, of course.
My point was that a lot of people get VERY defensive if you suggest you're
going to provide a straight gateway between the airwaves and the Internet
for licensed hams to use, citing how the fact that there's no realistic
means of precluding that gateway's use for illegal activities (just as there
isn't when one uses an autopatch) should somehow be reason enough to
disallow it in the first place.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Ken,

Long distance telephone is now virtually free, and the internet
is free. ...

Ahem, not quite. I have to shell out $50 every month for DSL. Long
distance over regular phone lines is 3c/minute within US/Canada but only
with an MCI phone card. Overseas is anywhere north of 10c/minute if you
want the 'luxury' of a decent echo cancellation.

Regards, Joerg

 

[mc]

I meant that if the people in question had ham radio licenses, of course.

My point was that a lot of people get VERY defensive if you suggest you're
going to provide a straight gateway between the airwaves and the Internet
for licensed hams to use, citing how the fact that there's no realistic
means of precluding that gateway's use for illegal activities (just as
there isn't when one uses an autopatch) should somehow be reason enough to
disallow it in the first place.

But that's not the point. The point is that ham radio is required to be
noncommercial. The Internet is mostly business.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

But that's not the point. The point is that ham radio is required to be
noncommercial. The Internet is mostly business.

That was my (original) point -- a very large chunk of what most people use
their "personal" or "home" Internet connection for is NOT business... just
reading e-mail from friends, ordering the occasional book on Amazon, reading
newsgroup, surfing random web sites, whatever -- all things that are allowed
over ham frequencies. (Which -- as you're probably aware -- are regulated
such that you can't engage in activities in which you have a "pecuniary
interest," but it's been made clear that things like ordering a pizzaare
OK.)

 

[Keith]

I dunno, I certainly wouldn't want to relocate. I love the area I grew
up in, nearly my entire family lives within a few hundred miles, it'd be
a big hassle to fly in for family events a few times a year. To each
their own I suppose.

I guess! I moved nine hundred miles from the family upon graduation and
another couple of hundred more 20 years later. My father moved from the
UP of Michigan to Schenectady NY in the 40s for similar reasons.
Comparitively, I have it easy since I've only had to move the family
twice (kid only once) and travel is so much easier today. If you want the
job you gotta go where it is. If you want to stay home with momma, don't
whine about it.

 

[Don Bowey]

I meant that if the people in question had ham radio licenses, of course.
My point was that a lot of people get VERY defensive if you suggest you're
going to provide a straight gateway between the airwaves and the Internet
for licensed hams to use, citing how the fact that there's no realistic
means of precluding that gateway's use for illegal activities (just as there
isn't when one uses an autopatch) should somehow be reason enough to
disallow it in the first place.

If messages traverse the internet and jump into ham band packets at one or
both ends, and there is an operator controlling the transmission at the jump
points, I don't perceive any legal problems for non-commercial messages.
For "emergency" traffic it would be a valuable process. Maybe some are
doing this..... It's not a brain-buster.

Don

 

[James Sweet]

Fair point, but I guess the question would be... "the prospects for EEs
aren't that stellar compared to... what?" Compared to most people in
technical fields I still think we do OK. (I do agree one typically does
have to relocate, but at least straight out of college I would hope that
most people would _want_ to do that.)

I dunno, I certainly wouldn't want to relocate. I love the area I grew
up in, nearly my entire family lives within a few hundred miles, it'd be
a big hassle to fly in for family events a few times a year. To each
their own I suppose.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

If messages traverse the internet and jump into ham band packets at one or
both ends, and there is an operator controlling the transmission at the
jump
points, I don't perceive any legal problems for non-commercial messages.
For "emergency" traffic it would be a valuable process. Maybe some are
doing this..... It's not a brain-buster.

Yeah, the whole idea though really turns some people off, unfortunately. My
opinion is that reasonably cool heads are prevailing, though, and ham radio
regulations are sloooowwwllllly moving in the right direction. It appears
that regulation primarily by bandwidth (rather than emission type) will be
the law of the land in the next couple of years.

 

[James Sweet]

Hello Ken,




Ahem, not quite. I have to shell out $50 every month for DSL. Long
distance over regular phone lines is 3c/minute within US/Canada but only
with an MCI phone card. Overseas is anywhere north of 10c/minute if you
want the 'luxury' of a decent echo cancellation.

You don't *have* to shell out $50/month. My DSL is $30, but if I wanted
to I could get dialup for $5, or I could go to the local library and use
it for free. The added cost is for the convenience of having a fast
connection at home.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

I dunno, I certainly wouldn't want to relocate. I love the area I grew up
in, nearly my entire family lives within a few hundred miles, it'd be a
big hassle to fly in for family events a few times a year. To each their
own I suppose.

I didn't say people should never come back. I just think one can learn
a lot by moving around a little, trying out different states, countries,
whatever your resources allow you to. My understanding is that in many
western European countries, Oz, NZ, etc. this "experience" is somewhat
formalized, with something like a year right after college reserved for
travelling the globe.

Sheesh, I really need to get back to work and quit getting so sentimental
when stuck in a motel in San Diego for a week...!

 

[James Sweet]

Yeah, the whole idea though really turns some people off, unfortunately. My
opinion is that reasonably cool heads are prevailing, though, and ham radio
regulations are sloooowwwllllly moving in the right direction. It appears
that regulation primarily by bandwidth (rather than emission type) will be
the law of the land in the next couple of years.

I'm sure it will eventually. Ham will either evolve with the times or it
will fade out of existence. I know a few old timers who are into ham
radio but I've not yet met anyone in my 20-something generation who's
into it, not even one.

 

[Ignoramus12063]

Hello,



Lucky you. That possibility isn't remote at all. Happened here about 15
years ago. And this is not a settlement behind the Klondike but we are
35mi from where Arnold holds his office.

I am doubtful that any snowfall would not be sorted out in one week,
here. I am in N Illinois. I still "like to be prepared", hence my
ownership of a generator and diesel fuel.

Here are some pictures of its restoration.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

i

 

[James Sweet]

I didn't say people should never come back. I just think one can learn
a lot by moving around a little, trying out different states, countries,
whatever your resources allow you to. My understanding is that in many
western European countries, Oz, NZ, etc. this "experience" is somewhat
formalized, with something like a year right after college reserved for
travelling the globe.

Sheesh, I really need to get back to work and quit getting so sentimental
when stuck in a motel in San Diego for a week...!

I love to travel, but by the time I was out on my own I had far too much
"junk" to pack up and move every few years and none of the places I've
been to seemed all that appealing to live in. I guess it works out well
that I live in an area which is quite a hotspot of technical jobs, just
glad I bought a house when I did because there's no way I'd be able to
now, one would be hard pressed to find a 1 bedroom condo for much under
$200K.

 

[John Hudak]

Hmmm, well I for one would not trust my windoz-based PCs to work
reliably enough in a disaster. Even if stripped down, I don't think it
is robust enough. (I think Linux or a Mac are different stories).
ALso, there is still too much infrastructure needed to get PCs 'out on
the web'...With a ham rig, hoist an antenna and your there...
John

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Hi John,

Hmmm, well I for one would not trust my windoz-based PCs to work reliably
enough in a disaster. Even if stripped down, I don't think it is robust
enough. (I think Linux or a Mac are different stories).

Whether or not a Windows system is reliable has much more to do with the
person setting it up than the OS itself; thousands of "mission critical"
Windows systems prove that every day. Personally, I'd be choosing my
hardware basd on the applications I wanted to run... that pretty much rules
out Macs, whereas Linux could be a decent contender given that there is
plenty of good amateur radio software for it.

ALso, there is still too much infrastructure needed to get PCs 'out on the
web'...With a ham rig, hoist an antenna and your there...

My suggestion was that the best thing hams could do for the average person
would be to set up a PC to let them send e-mail, but I'd certainly agree
that if you don't have a laptop lying around to do that with, there's still
some benefit in being able to relay voice messages. (And compared to a
decent HF radio, its power supply, and antenna, adding a laptop as well
doesn't do much to increase weight, decrease mobility, etc., but it does
provide a marked increase in communications flexibility.)

There are now some fancy HF transceiver out there running Linux or Windows
CE... Heck, there are even folks who use their PDAs running WinCE or the
Palm OS to interface with their radios!

---Joel

 

[Joerg]

Hello Joel,

Yes, and the government continues to pour millions of dollars into radio
interoperability to try to make it work. I see no technical reason why
getting all the fancy equipment to talk to other agencies should be a
problem (look at the Internet -- Usenet news and e-mail seems to make it to
all corners of the globe just fine, despite using lots of different brands
and types of equipment) -- I guess it really is much more a political
problem.

That is the difference. Agencies are notoriously slow and inefficient in
fixing organizational problems no matter how simple. Someone on TV
suggested to have the welfare program in Califronia run by Jiffy Lube
because they know how to operate efficiently. My guess is that this guy
was right.

I agree it helps, but wouldn't you suspect that if you survived all the
Hurricane Katrina victims who received help from any formal organization, by
quantity those helped by more formalized organizations such as the Red Cross
would easily outnumber those who received helps from hams? The problem the
hams have is that their help often does go un- or under-acknowledged,
whereas everyone knows about the Red Cross.

Many people are fine when their good deeds are un-acknowledged. Much of
the ministry and outreach we do through our church is unrecognized and
neither I nor my wife mind. Recognition isn't why we do it.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joerg]

Hello,

I am doubtful that any snowfall would not be sorted out in one week,
here. I am in N Illinois. I still "like to be prepared", hence my
ownership of a generator and diesel fuel.

Some areas like this aren't geared for a major hard freeze and snow
pack. It just doesn't usually happen. Even areas that are prepared can
get hit hard. In Europe they had a major issue this winter with ice
build-up on HV lines. It happened in unprecedented magnitude and then
many of the lines came down.

Here are some pictures of its restoration.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

Nice. Make sure that rooster doesn't decide to peck the tank for too
long ;-)

Regards, Joerg

 

[clifto]

That was my (original) point -- a very large chunk of what most people use
their "personal" or "home" Internet connection for is NOT business... just
reading e-mail from friends, ordering the occasional book on Amazon, reading
newsgroup, surfing random web sites, whatever -- all things that are allowed
over ham frequencies.

Even before the Internet allowed commercial traffic, ham radio had to be
careful of people whose f*cking language was f*cking against the rules,
if ya know what I mean.

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

Even before the Internet allowed commercial traffic, ham radio had to be
careful of people whose f*cking language was f*cking against the rules,
if ya know what I mean.

It used to be illegal to even say "that word" on the f*cking _telephone_!

Thank Goddess for the Bill of Rights!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joerg]

Hello Keith,

I guess! I moved nine hundred miles from the family upon graduation and
another couple of hundred more 20 years later. ...

It's about 6000 miles for me now. And I love it.

Home can be almost anywhere as long as one is willing to make friends,
integrate and most of all, learn the customs and the language.

Regards, Joerg