Re: Is The King James Version The Only Perfect Translation Of The Bible?

N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
LOL!

You linked us to the definition of "plea"?

You are so desparate that you didn't even read it, including the
section I quoted right below. I guess you object to people actually
citing the text they quote.

And in response... ummm.... to WHAT?
        United States

        A defendant who pleads guilty must do so, in the phraseology
        of a 1938 Supreme Court case, "knowingly, voluntarily and
        intelligently". The burden is on the prosecution to prove that
        all waivers of the defendant's rights complied with due
        process standards. Accordingly, in cases of all but the most
        minor offenses, the court or the prosecution (depending upon
        local custom and the presiding judge's preference) will engage
        in a plea colloquy wherein they ask the defendant a series of
        rote questions about the defendant's knowledge of his rights
        and the voluntariness of the plea.

Furthermore, in his plea, Craig only admitted to "engag[ing] in
conduct which I knew or should have known tended to arouse alarm or
resentment of others, which conduct was physical (versus veral) in
nature."  See
<http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/crim/larry-craig-guilty-plea-agree...>

Absolutely.

So, you're saying that he actually IS guilty of "engag[ing] in
conduct which [he] knew or should have known tended to arouse alarm or
resentment of others, which conduct was physical (versus veral) in
nature"?

What I'm saying is what I stated in the post you responded to and that
you quoted immediately below your inane comment. You'd look like less
of a fool if you'd read the posts you reply to before mouthing off.
Craig can claim that his conduct was merely that of inadvertently
bumping the officer's foot, and that it is not perjury to sign a
document that states that he should have known others would find it
offensive, which is a different statement than one as to whether the
conduct occurred knowingly.

He pled guilty to disorderly conduct. He admits to "engag[ing] in
conduct which [he] knew or should have known tended to arouse alarm or
resentment of others, which conduct was physical (versus veral) in
nature".

The plea he entered in no way indicates that he was guilty of
soliciting sex or engaging in lewd conduct. That's what the flap
was about, not clumsily stepping on someone's foot. Most people
would resent having someone step on their foot. Is doing it by
accident criminal?

What you are trying to do is to equivocate on the world "guilty",
trying to turn a plea on one charge (whether he was actually guilty
or not) into guilt for something quite different (the behavior the
restroom sting was set up to stop).
He's a legal analyst, not a "random person". And you consider CNN
News to be just a "TV program"? Like "Roseanne"?

You dimwit.

No, he's a random person hired to mouth off on TV. I'm not all that
impressed with any of them. I'm certainly not impressed with him:
when Craig entered a motion to have his plea withdrawn, he had the
advise of a high-powered attorney. That attorney would certainly have
warned Craig if there was any risk of a perjury conviction in trying
to withdraw the plea. Since Craig tried to withdraw the plea, it is
pretty obvious that there is no such risk. Your guy is running a TV
program. People who run TV programs need something to rant about to
fill up the time. He's most likely no exception to the rule.

So, the "dimwit" would appear to be you. It's amazing. You have a
perfect track record of making a fool of yourself.
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
Yes. Really.

No, not really. See
<http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/white_collar_crimes/perjury.htm>:

Perjury is the "willful and corrupt taking of a false oath in
regard to a material matter in a judicial proceeding". It is
sometimes called "lying under oath"; that is, deliberately
telling a lie in a courtroom proceeding after having taken an
oath to tell the truth.

Entering a plea of guilty when innocent is not perjury.
And its contents approved by Senator Craig before he put his hand to
it.


Nope. That's not what the document says

I gave you a quote that you snipped.
No, because Craig didn't have to sign it. He had options.
Wrong.


That's fair. It's not a threat. It is the truth. It is reality.
"Take it or leave it" is not suborning perjury.

"Take it or leave it" in a case like this is coercion.
Wanting a document buried does not imply innocence.

It does not imply guilt when the alternative could be very embarassing
even if completely innocent.
He should have done that before. I wonder why didn't he ask for an
Alford plea.

Ask him if you like, but the most plausible explanation is that he
would have been satisfied with having the thing burried - out of sight,
out of mind.
Yeah, me and the REST of America! LOL!

The "REST of America"??? ROTFLMO - look who this country elected to
run it, and look at the fraction of the population that believes in
creationism.
 
D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
I wanted a video showing Craig en flagrante, not some infotainment or
whatever the hell they call that junk on TV.

You are a sick, sick man. Wanting to see Craig nekked... Eww.

Oh, and um, by the way, that might get you arrested. (Many states have laws against video
in restrooms, stalking, blackmail, and the like.)


Furthermore, in his plea, Craig only admitted to "engag[ing] in
conduct which I knew or should have known tended to arouse alarm or
resentment of others, which conduct was physical (versus veral) in
nature."

Oh, he knew all right. That was obvious from the police report.

Craig can claim that his conduct was merely that of inadvertently
bumping the officer's foot, and that it is not perjury to sign a
document that states that he should have known others would find it
offensive, which is a different statement than one as to whether the
conduct occurred knowingly.

Oddly enough, the document he attested to as being true and factual says both.

Nice try.


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

Malcolm: "Ghaah!!! Augh!! It can't be ethical to cause a patient this much pain."

Dr. Flox: "It's unethical to *harm* a patient, I can inflict as much pain as I like."

-- Star Trek: Enterprise, "Dead Stop"

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N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
Correct. The plea was to disorderly conduct, which conduct occurred
while he was soliciting sex.

There is no credible proof that he was soliciting sex, only innuendo.
There could have been proof, but the character who arrested him was
too impatient to wait. Craig could have been acquitted on the
disorderly conduct charge, if it had gone to trial, by arguing that
anything that happened was accidental (unintentional). A good
laywer would most likely have gotten him off the hook.
 
D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson said:
So you think Larry Craig is a bottom?

With that wide stance, I guess it makes sense.

Either that or he likes "full figured" men...

(Take *that* mental image! Mu-ha-ha-hah-HAH!)


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

"Conventional wisdom has it that 'In the beginning there was Gawd, only Gawd, and nothing
but Gawd.' But that's a lie! Because there was me too -- Dave, Gawd's little brother. Of
course we didn't get along. Always fighting. I blame it on the lack of parental control
myself."

"You had parents?"

"No. That was the problem."

-- A Conversation between Lobo & Dave, Ruler of Hell

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D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson said:
The WRITTEN word in a SIGNED LEGAL DOCUMENT that is presented to a
JUDGE hearing one's CASE, is MUCH more powerful and believable than an
oral statement being uttered (by a politician!!!) without being under
oath.

Shh... We're not s'posed to know that.


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

A recent survey has opened a disturbing window into American culture: We have a large
number of cannibals in this country. When asked what they were having for Thanksgiving
dinner this year, 37-percent of those polled said "relatives."

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N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
Yes, really. See http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/perjury.html

Perjury statutes in many states make it a crime to knowingly lie after
taking an oath to tell the truth, such as when testifying in court or
communicating through certain legal documents. The falsehood must
usually be material to the matter at issue, though perjury can also be
committed by simply signing a document with the knowledge that it
contains false assertions.

No, not really, for the reasons I stated. It is not perjury to plead
guilty when one is in fact innocent.

For example, while completing a sworn affidavit during child support
proceedings in family court, Dan purposefully understates his monthly
income by $2000, signs the document, and files it with the judge's
clerk.


Unfortunately, his plea was in writing in the form of a petition to
the court.

That's different than just standing up and saying to the judge,
"Guilty."

No it isn't. As was explained to you, Craig could agree with any
material facts in the plea bargain and still be innocent of the
charge, because it is not a crime to be a clumsy oaf, and being a
clumsy oaf is a valid defense in this case.
You're rather anal about snippage.

When you say, "That's not what the document says," it is bad form
to snip a quote showing what the document says.

<snip of mindless rants, vulgarities, and behavior on the part of
Emerson Wainwright that would be embarassing for even a 12 year old
boy. >
 
D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
Unlikely - some of the defense attorneys for others caught in the sting
were interviewed and claimed that the case against Craig was pretty weak
and that they could have gotten him off. You can imagine what the sort
of lawyer Craig would hire would do.

<dry> No, we can't imagine how a lawyer would get him off. Do tell. </dry>


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

"I'm as pure as the driven slush."
-- Tallulah Bankhead

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D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
Idiot. Dionisio just jumped into the discussion.

Oh I've been here for quite some time now. What? You hadn't noticed?

Oh. Let me guess. You think Mr. Wainwright is a sock puppet of mine. Anything to save
face, eh? May all the saints and angels protect you from -- what's the count now? over a
dozen people? -- who think you could loose a poker match against an anencephalic.

[...]
So what if he has no biological children?

Oh, something to do with celibacy...


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

And lastly, ever considered that the Bible we all know is an unholy book? Seems that the
monks who were responsible for the massive editing that occurred in 300 AD (or was that
600 AD? I get those two confused.) forgot the last few verses of Revelations...
-- [email protected] - 4 Feb 1995

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N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dionisio said:
You are a sick, sick man. Wanting to see Craig nekked... Eww.

It's no worse than having to see gory pictures of a murder if you
are on a jury, and it's not like I have to look at them personally.
It's only a request that someone produce some real evidence.
Oh, and um, by the way, that might get you arrested. (Many states have
laws against video in restrooms, stalking, blackmail, and the like.)

Why would it get me arrested? I have no interest in making the tapes.
That's why I farmed the work out to the idiot ranting about Craig's
sexual proclivities: if he's so convinced, he can make the tapes or
find some.
Furthermore, in his plea, Craig only admitted to "engag[ing] in
conduct which I knew or should have known tended to arouse alarm or
resentment of others, which conduct was physical (versus veral) in
nature."

Oh, he knew all right. That was obvious from the police report.

No it wasn't. He stated he had no knowledge of their feet hitting,
but didn't dispute the officer's account.
Oddly enough, the document he attested to as being true and factual
says both.

Nice try.

Nice try on your part, but factually wrong. Craig could claim that,
when he signed it, he was merely accepting the officer's account, but
didn't know for sure. Suppose you plead guilty for running a red
light because the officer tells you you did and you didn't remember
doing it (at least, you didn't do it on purpose). Then someone gets in
touch with you and tells you that he saw the whole thing and you
didn't run the light at all. So you try to get the plea withdrawn.
You would not have committed perjury by pleading guilty and accepting
the observations of a police officer. Craig can use the same
argument with his plea: if innocent, he did not commit perjury by
signing that document.
 
D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
Shades of Dionisio lying about what I said: The statement "he
says he's innocent" was in a reply to a person who claimed that
he had admitted his guilt. He clearly has not admitted his gulit.
In fact, he's professed his lack of guilt over and over. It isn't
a question of whether he is guilty or innocent but a question of
what he actually said.

Now, why don't *you* have the intellectual integrity to stop your
infantile games and talk about what people actually say rather than
making things up. That persistent behavior on your part is why
I consider you to be a liar.

Oh, I've done more than that; I've noted what he attested to, signed, and presented to the
court. That's not made up.

Alas, someone thinks that a public declaration of "guilty" means something else.
Curiously, it is not I.

What are you talking about? I snipped it because you were ranting
and stopped reading your tripe.

You brought up the celibacy thing, yes? Thinking that might not have been wise now, eh?
Oops. Too late.

Dionisio is now reduced to forging posts - pretending that his text was
written by me.

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Subject: Re: Is The King James Version The Only Perfect Translation Of The Bible?
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Golly. Looks like you.

Caught again. Shame. Shame.


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

As Zeus said to Narcissus, "Watch yourself."

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D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
That's nice, and the fact that he says he's innocent means just what
I said: he has not admitted to being guilty but simply signed a plea
bargain as a deal with the prosecutor.

And what did the plea state? G-U-I-L-T-Y.

Wow, when presented with a deal like that, how could an innocent man refuse?


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

Passions are likened best to floods and streams: The shallow murmur, but the deep are dumb.
-- Sir Walter Raleigh, _The Silent Lover_

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D

Dionisio

Jan 1, 1970
0
No said:
He didn't sign a confession. He plea bargained.

Result: Public declaration of guilt.

Very smart, nobody'd believe that...

Just the Idaho Statesman...

Which he knew was examining everything the reporters could get their hands on;
Particularly public records... And then he goes and gives them one. Mensa, thy ranks are
secure.


Nope - if it were withdrawn (what he wants to do)

News flash: That was denied.


--
And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:

The easiest job in the world has to be Coroner. Surgery on dead people: What's the worst
that could happen?
--Dennis Miller

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N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
Of course there is. Get real.

No there isn't. I previously put the probability that he was soliciting
sex and 98%, but that is not enough to be credible proof. It is merely
enough to make him late-night-TV fodder.
Perhaps too impatient for your tastes, but I'm certain that the DA,
who won a conviction, has no problem with it.

The DA probably didn't care as long as it made his performance numbers
look better, but that has nothing to do with justice.
A jury would find that there were too many behaviors in too short a
time in too specific an order in one of the few places where those
behaviors in that specific order mean that one is looking for a
quickie.

Nope. If I were on the jury, I'd use Bayesian inference, and would
come to the conclusion that the risk of a false conviction was too
high.
And monkey might fly out of my ass.

That's one of Dionisio's favorite lines. Try using your own
material.
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dionisio said:
<dry> No, we can't imagine how a lawyer would get him off. Do tell. </dry>

I did tell you. Try reading before you mouth off.
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Emerson Wainwright said:
First, the lawyer enters a public restroom stall, sits on the toilet
and spreads his legs wide....

<tap tap>

Et cetera.

Idiot.
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dionisio said:
Oh I've been here for quite some time now. What? You hadn't noticed?

No you haven't - you just jumped in again at about the time that
the other moron complained.
Oh. Let me guess. You think Mr. Wainwright is a sock puppet of
mine.

That's a possibility, given that I just caught him using one of your
pet phrases from the previous time we argued on this topic.

Anything to save face, eh? May all the saints and angels protect
you from -- what's the count now? over a dozen people? -- who think
you could loose a poker match against an anencephalic.

Save face over what? You two liars are really desparate.
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dionisio said:
No One wrote:
Oh, I've done more than that; I've noted what he attested to, signed,
and presented to the court. That's not made up.

Alas, someone thinks that a public declaration of "guilty" means
something else. Curiously, it is not I.

You don't think at all, and Craig did not exactly make a public
declaration - he assumed that nobody would notice, and that almost
worked - it took a while before anyone did.

You brought up the celibacy thing, yes? Thinking that might not have
been wise now, eh? Oops. Too late.

You and I both know that I was refering to celebacy only with respect
to gay sex - in context I was commenting on the inability to find any
former sex partners in spite of a newspaper beating the bushes. Nor
could they find anyone in Washington's gay bars that recognized him
as someone they saw somewhere. Your attempt to distort what others
post and then rant about it, however, is why I view you as a worthless
liar.
[begin header]

You forged a post by inserting a spurious '>' to change who said what.
And that is a fact. And you snipped that part of it, keeping only the
headers, in your "quote". All you do is lie. Why is that?
 
N

No One

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dionisio said:
And what did the plea state? G-U-I-L-T-Y.

Are you stupid enough to think he meant it, given how many times he
denied it afterwards?
 
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