Small inverter for emergencies

[Gordon]

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W,
400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have
one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we
had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time
I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small
inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea
so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be
completely usefull.

What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car.
Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an
extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get
lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not
necessarily all at the same time.

So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected
to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive
a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time.
I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a
permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later
when it is my own house.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W,
400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have
one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we
had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time
I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small
inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea
so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be
completely usefull.

What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car.
Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an
extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get
lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not
necessarily all at the same time.

So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected
to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive
a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time.
I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a
permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later
when it is my own house.

GOOD inverters generally have a "surge" rating of up to double the
steady rating. Many are closer to 160%.
Many refrigerators will draw over double their running current to
start (short spike, but enough to shut down many inverters)
Anything less than an 800 watt unit is really dreaming.

At idle your car can likely put out something like 35-40% of rated
output, which should handle an 800 watt unit.

 

[[email protected]]

What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car.
Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an
extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get
lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not
necessarily all at the same time.

So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected
to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive
a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time.
I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic
fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts
into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could
work, even though it is terribly inefficient.

Be aware that you'll need something to push on the accelerator or grab
the cable to get that fast idle, and that your mechanic probably won't
like the idea, because cars and alternators aren't designed for that
type of duty.

A fridge can easily go a couple of days without power - especially if
you drape it with some blankets. For emergency lighting? Walgreens
has battery powered LED booklights for sale right now, 2 for $3. They
provide plenty of long lasting light and can be clipped or mounted
wherever you need it.

Laptops need minimal power, so unless you absolutely must have a big
computer, that can be a great option.

On the refrigerator, one trick can be to freeze blocks of ice in
cut-off milk jugs to increase the thermal mass, then after a day or
two without power add salt, to melt them and absorb more heat.

TV? One of the plusses of being without power is the absence of tv,
but little battery tvs are available for about $10.

 

[Gordon]

Thanks for the quick reply

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in 4ax.com:

GOOD inverters generally have a "surge" rating of up to double the
steady rating. Many are closer to 160%.
Many refrigerators will draw over double their running current to
start (short spike, but enough to shut down many inverters)
Anything less than an 800 watt unit is really dreaming.

That's what I thought. TV, A couple of CFL lamps. that only
adds up to a few 100 watts. With the TV taking most of it.
BTW: I would be more intrested in the TV for news updates. I
don't normaly watch the thing anyway. It's running the fridge
that I was worried about. I was thinking about unplugging
everything else and running the fridge for about 30 minutes
every few hours.

So it sounds like a well made 800 watt unit or a not so well made
1200 Watt unit (acording to another post) should work OK.
Any advise on brands names to look for??

 

[Gordon]

[email protected] wrote in 4ax.com:

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic
fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts
into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could
work, even though it is terribly inefficient.

Let's see; 1200 Watts is 10 Amps at 120 volts. So a good 1200 watt
inverter should supply about a 20 amp peak. That's in line with
what most fridges seem to need.

A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting
the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30
minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.

Be aware that you'll need something to push on the accelerator or grab
the cable to get that fast idle, and that your mechanic probably won't
like the idea, because cars and alternators aren't designed for that
type of duty.

Pair of Vise Grips always works. Turn the throttle to about 2000 RPM,
Clamp on the Vise Grips, Done.

A fridge can easily go a couple of days without power - especially if
you drape it with some blankets.

We went 20 hours without power and lost no food. The hard part was
keeping the kids out of it.

For emergency lighting?

We have a couple of camping lanterns and many flashlights. But having
one bright light in the house would have been nice.

Laptops need minimal power, so unless you absolutely must have a big
computer, that can be a great option.

I have a Dell laptop that would have worked, Powering up the DSL
modem is what stymied me. I'll have to work on a battery backup
for that.

 

[Gordon]

What I have:

Xantrex 300 watt inverter w/ battery clamps and cig lighter adapter
and has a cooling fan and low voltage alarm (shuts off at 10.5 volts
which by then the battery is uncomfortably too far discharged, but oh
well. Cost me $25.00 during a sale.

100 Ahr sealed AGM 12volt battery = free from work (saw duty as back
up power for CATV network).

I have heard the Xantrex is a good brand. And 300watts would be fine,
except for if I want to run the fridge. Then I imagine I would drain
the battery pretty quick. Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle
battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair
of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that
be abusing the battery?

 

[[email protected]]

A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting
the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30
minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.

Figure voltage at 12 volts. Otherwise, you've got it about right.
The important issue is that you aren't depending on the battery for
much more than momentary use, and you aren't constantly overloading
the alternator.

Comparatively speaking, a small car battery might be storing the
energy that is in about a cup of gasoline, and is easily damaged. It
becomes pretty obvious why you don't want to expect the battery alone
to do much.

If you are planning on running the car near the house or in a garage,
consider investing in a carbon monoxide detector.

 

[Richard P.]

Chances are the inverter wouldn't function with the fridge plugged in.

As for charging a deep cycle battery with a car, I know people who have done
it, but I don't think it's good for the battery. I'm not sure why but
someone here may be able to shed some light on that. I do know you want a
charge controller so that it won't overcharge the battery. But then, when
its an emergency, who cares about that anyways! hehheh...

 

[[email protected]]

Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle
battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair
of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that
be abusing the battery?

You're getting into a whole different area. The short answer is
you'll only be putting on a partial or surface charge, and yes, that
is battery abuse. If you don't drop the battery less than 50% of
rating, and fully charge it after the event, you might get away with
it.

Unless you go for the big boy toys, expect a marine trolling battery
(which is a combo compromise between a auto battery and a deep cycle)
to last a maximum of four years even with good care. A deep cycle
battery will cost even more and provide less "instantanious" power.
However, it has the potential to last much longer _IF_ it is properly
maintained without any lapses.

 

[You]

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W,
400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have
one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we
had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time
I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small
inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea
so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be
completely usefull.

What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car.
Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an
extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get
lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not
necessarily all at the same time.

So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected
to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive
a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time.
I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a
permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later
when it is my own house.

One thing that most folks really don't get is, "Running a Automobile
Engine to charge the battery, and power ANYTHING, is about as
"Inefficent" as one could contimplate. You got this 6 or 8 Cyl
mechanical monster turning a 30 or 40 amp Alternator to make 500
Watts of power. I mean, come on, lets get real, here. A little
Honda 1000i cost less than $1K and is about as efficent as ANY
Gasoline operated Generator, produces very nice SineWave, Stable,
Power, and will run your fridge, Tv Lights, microwave, on a roatating
basis, with ease, and do it all day on a couple of USGallons of Fuel.
Your Car is going to burn that in a couple of hours.

 

[Eric]

[email protected] wrote in 4ax.com:


Let's see; 1200 Watts is 10 Amps at 120 volts. So a good 1200 watt
inverter should supply about a 20 amp peak. That's in line with
what most fridges seem to need.

A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting
the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30
minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.


Pair of Vise Grips always works. Turn the throttle to about 2000 RPM,
Clamp on the Vise Grips, Done.


We went 20 hours without power and lost no food. The hard part was
keeping the kids out of it.


We have a couple of camping lanterns and many flashlights. But having
one bright light in the house would have been nice.

I have a Dell laptop that would have worked, Powering up the DSL
modem is what stymied me. I'll have to work on a battery backup
for that.

Peak? an inverter will supply its wattage and thats it. Its not a generator.
I had a 1000 W inverter and it wouldnt even start a gas furnace. The furnace
solenoid would just go clickity clicity and thats it. It would run a bunch
of lights tho.
Eric

 

[Gordon]

[email protected] wrote in 4ax.com:

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic
fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts
into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could
work, even though it is terribly inefficient.

OK, so before the disscussion goes into left field...

It seems that I can use a 300 Watt inverter if all I want
is some convienience power (IE lights, pull in the gas
valve on the fireplace, TV) But no refrigerator. That would
need 800 Watts at least and 1200 Watts surely. It would
also require running the car pretty much constantly while
the fridge is running. But I still have to look up the
alternator capacity for my altima since 1200Watts may be
asking too much from it.

 

[Gordon]

[email protected] wrote in news:1i1co29u04lfi08fhtejrapfukntbsakon@

OK, so before the disscussion goes into left field...

It seems that I can use a 300 Watt inverter if all I want
is some convienience power (IE lights, pull in the gas
valve on the fireplace, TV) But no refrigerator. That would
need 800 Watts at least and 1200 Watts surely. It would
also require running the car pretty much constantly while
the fridge is running. But I still have to look up the
alternator capacity for my altima since 1200Watts may be
asking too much from it.

Oh. And buying a block of Ice for the fridge may be a better
solution to keeping the food from going bad. Even then,
replacing the food may be cheaper and easier in the long run.

 

[[email protected]]

Peak? an inverter will supply its wattage and thats it.

Depends on the inverter, the battery bank capacity, and the
connections. My Trace 2KW 2012 will start and run anything I throw at
it (for at least a short time). Of course the short four-ought copper
cables between it and the two fully charged series 27 batteries makes
a bit of a difference. If I try the same trick with batteries that
are half-discharged, it won't start much. Cheapie inverters will flip
into and out of overload and low voltage cutout easily.

 

[[email protected]]

... And buying a block of Ice for the fridge may be a better
solution to keeping the food from going bad.

Good idea. Or put some 1 liter water bottles in the upper freezer compartment.

Nick

 

[You]

You are ridiculous. Who cares about the efficiency? He is talking
about emergency power here.

Where will the generator be for $1K when he needs it?

Will it even run every 5 years?

Where will the gas can be?

Is the gas too old?

When was the last time the spark plug was changed?

Maybe the thing has rusted inside the cylinders for lack of use?

You gonn'a come over and start it once a month for him, change the
oil, test it?

SolarFart....Blow it out your ASS...... All the above objections
are true of the automobile your advocating using to power a cheap
Piece of Trash Inverter, as well. Proper maintainance is required
of ANY piece of equipment, if it is to be counted on in an Emergency.
Car, Inverter, Battery, or Generator.

 

[wmbjk]

And of course, I disagree totally with all of that. Man, that solar
flare is a piece'o'work!

A properly laid-up generator requires NO periodic maintenance.

Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance.
I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years.
It may have started on the old fuel, but instead I took about 10
minutes to drain it and clean the carb. Even if the OP had to do that,
it's still preferable to running a car out of fuel during an extended
outage, and then being without power *and* transportation.

While we're on the subject... I have an off-grid neighbor whose backup
generator died from overuse about two years back. So he's been using
his pickup truck for backup ever since. Every time I see that truck in
his yard, the hood is up. To him it probably makes sense, 'cause in
any single month his government check can cover the extra fuel, but
not another generator. Sooner or later the truck will expire, and
he'll find out that fixing up the solar setup would have cost less.
It's a perfect example of how the ignorant often stay on the bottom
rung of the ladder no matter how much easier it would be to climb. A
description that fits Gymmy the solarfart as well.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance.
I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years.
It may have started on the old fuel, but instead I took about 10
minutes to drain it and clean the carb. Even if the OP had to do that,
it's still preferable to running a car out of fuel during an extended
outage, and then being without power *and* transportation.

yeah BUT your working under pressure in the dark ands might need parts,
rubber stuff detoriates just sitting around. a gasoline engine just
sitting around for perhap[s years will likely no start when need the
most

While we're on the subject... I have an off-grid neighbor whose backup
generator died from overuse about two years back. So he's been using
his pickup truck for backup ever since. Every time I see that truck in
his yard, the hood is up. To him it probably makes sense, 'cause in
any single month his government check can cover the extra fuel, but
not another generator. Sooner or later the truck will expire, and
he'll find out that fixing up the solar setup would have cost less.
It's a perfect example of how the ignorant often stay on the bottom
rung of the ladder no matter how much easier it would be to climb. A
description that fits Gymmy the solarfart as well.

Wayne

so the fellow with soplar doesnt have much money, yet you knock him
from working with what hes got....

those oof us who have been or are broke likely understand better than
you.

its highly likely he doesnt have the money for parts... the tuck
rovides backup power and transportation.

Hey, you're talking to a guy who has a system that allows him to work
during the day. If he wants to continue working after dark he needs to
start his gen set. He thinks he's state of the art.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

Peak? an inverter will supply its wattage and thats it. Its not a generator.
I had a 1000 W inverter and it wouldnt even start a gas furnace. The furnace
solenoid would just go clickity clicity and thats it. It would run a bunch
of lights tho.
Eric

You best study some more Eric - inverters have peak and steady state
rating - peak USUALLY about 160%.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

Good idea. Or put some 1 liter water bottles in the upper freezer compartment.

Nick

Only works BEFORE the power goes out - and just TRY to buy ice during
a power failure.