[JosephKK]

Eeyore [email protected] posted to
sci.electronics.design:

I'm not talking about traction, I'm talking about road holding /
handling.

And just how, exactly, do you separate the two (dealing with tires
only)? Both are ultimately limited by friction limits.

I know American roads don't have corners (or at least
from the way US cars drive you'd think that was the case) but we
do here.

We have them on residential streets. ;^)

 

[Eeyore]

Total nonsense! Exactly how do you think the skinny tires make the
car not corner.

Exactly why do you think car's *aren't* fitted with skinny tyres ?

Graham

 

[MooseFET]

So why don't all cars run on thin tyres then ?

They can sell you the wide ones for extra money.

 

[MooseFET]

Tyre width only matters when you get close to the limits of traction. It
doesn't affect total friction until the tyres start to distort
significantly and the force/area ratio exceeds the strength of the rubber.

Modern tyres are not really just "rubber" anymore. They are mixtures
of matherials that are harder to rip apart than pure rubber would be.

 

[Eeyore]

(or at least from the way US cars drive you'd think that was the case) but we do here.

They can sell you the wide ones for extra money.

I find that idea strangely unconvincing.

Graham

 

[MooseFET]

Exactly why do you think car's *aren't* fitted with skinny tyres ?

Because people will buy them.

 

[Eeyore]

Because people will buy them.

So why don't F1 cars have skinny tyres ?

Graham

 

[MooseFET]

So why don't F1 cars have skinny tyres ?

They use very sticky tires, their tires get a lot of heating and they
make a lot of horse power per pound. All of these can cause the
rubber to break up. No sane persons tires will see those conditions
on the public roads.

 

[MooseFET]

I find that idea strangely unconvincing.

That fake hood scoop doesn't make your car faster either.

 

[Eeyore]

They use very sticky tires, their tires get a lot of heating and they
make a lot of horse power per pound. All of these can cause the
rubber to break up. No sane persons tires will see those conditions
on the public roads.

So why don't F1 cars have skinny tyres ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

That fake hood scoop doesn't make your car faster either.

There are no fake scoops on my car.

Graham

 

[René]

Flywheels are very impractical energy stores. The gyroscopic forces don't
exactly help in vehicle use either.

Counter-rotating flywheels have no net gyroscope effect.

Changing the differential between the flywheels can create a "wanted"
cornering force. (attitude control in satellites is usually done that
way)

...Perhaps a way to develop something useful out of those bling-bling
wheelhub spinners..

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Counter-rotating flywheels have no net gyroscope effect.

No matter the distance betwen the flywheels?

Changing the differential between the flywheels can create a "wanted"
cornering force. (attitude control in satellites is usually done that
way)

Just changing the angular velocity creates a torque for the ACS.

..Perhaps a way to develop something useful out of those bling-bling
wheelhub spinners..

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Mark]

No matter the distance betwen the flywheels?


Just changing the angular velocity creates a torque for the ACS.

My point about bringing up the flywheels, is that the electric parts
of the Prius are there just for temporary storage of a relativley
small amount of energy i.e. for regen braking and to boost
acceleration. The batteries do not supply much long term energy for
cruise, that all comes from the ICE

Mark



Mark

 

[René]

So why don't F1 cars have skinny tyres ?

Ground effect anything to do with that? - more than the weight of the
car itself usually..

 

[MooseFET]

So why don't F1 cars have skinny tyres ?

I explained it but I guess you just didn't understand something so I
will break it down into steps to see where you didn't follow:

Are you aware of just how much faster they are going?

Do you understand that they get their tires very hot?

Have you forgotten that we were talking about the tires on a car being
driven on public roads?

Are you aware that rubber gets weaker at high temperatures?

Did you understand that the point where the rubber starts to rip apart
makes a limit on the usefulness of the tire?

 

[MooseFET]

Ground effect anything to do with that? - more than the weight of the
car itself usually..

Anything that increases the weight on the tire increases the heating
at the speeds they are going.

 

[Jasen Betts]

People don't buy Prius' to save gas, they buy them to be hip and
stylish. So instead of smog, we have clouds of smug.

South park did a cartoon based on that a while back

 

[Jasen Betts]

No matter the distance betwen the flywheels?

no matter - as long at their axles are rigidly constrained to point in
the exact same direction and the have equal and opposite
rotational momentum.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Jasen Betts]

I'm pretty convinced that would be much better. And don't run the engine for shorter journeys.

I'm not sure that 2 strokes will meet emissions limits though.

direct injection fan scavenged 2 strokes can be quite clean