[Jim Thompson]

FWIW, I've always gotten about 20% better than EPA-rated fuel economy,
by carefully optimizing my driving.

I had been driving 55 mph, then even 50 mph in an attempt to improve
my Acura's mpg. Careful cross-country measurements show optimum fuel
economy to be 41mpg, which applies from 85 down to 65 mph. Going
slower reduces mpg.

A gearhead pal offered a decent explanation of how providing the
engine with optimum load and RPM by going faster makes my particular
engine more efficient, making up for the windage loss... up to a
point, of course.

Cheers,
James Arthur

I'm getting 19MPG at 85MPH in my Q45 ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[James Arthur]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:36:32 -0700, James Arthur






I'm getting 19MPG at 85MPH in my Q45 ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I'm surprised your Q45 isn't a little better on the highway,
truthfully. Not that 19mpg is particularly bad, all things
considered, but I just got back from Alaska, where a pal and I got
19mpg in a Ford van (that was transport and lodging both). Of course
that was @ 55mph.

ICEs like constant torque. I save gas by accelerating slowly,
coasting before braking, slowing up hills, and speeding up (or
coasting to control speed) on the downside.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Jim Thompson]

I'm surprised your Q45 isn't a little better on the highway,
truthfully. Not that 19mpg is particularly bad, all things
considered, but I just got back from Alaska, where a pal and I got
19mpg in a Ford van (that was transport and lodging both). Of course
that was @ 55mph.

ICEs like constant torque. I save gas by accelerating slowly,
coasting before braking, slowing up hills, and speeding up (or
coasting to control speed) on the downside.

Cheers,
James Arthur

In case you couldn't draw the conclusion... I'm (surprise, surprise)
an aggressive driver ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Eeyore]

Was that proposed compressed air car debunked? It looked pretty iffy
to me, though compressed air or a hydraulic accumulator might be fine
for a hybrid.

The MDI air car ?

It exists after a fashion but it's still not in production. I doubt it ever will
be, it has no really useful range and doesn't go very fast. I assume you bring a
paraffin heater with you to keep it warm in winter.

Graham

 

[Nobody]

Well, that's simple - just put the flywheel's axis vertical.

That doesn't allow for hills.

OTOH, it might be a perfectly viable solution in the Netherlands.

 

[Guy Macon]

And the number of pneumatic combined CD case stuffers and
automobiles currently on the road is....?

Approximately the same number as cars on the road for whom
"shop floor convenience" is an important consideration.
Why do you ask?

 

[MooseFET]

Go for what?

The energy density of compressed air is ludicrously low.
Typically one sixth of lead acid or worse. 15 wh/l is hard to acheive.

It is the energy per pound not the energy per unit volume that
matters. Others have seen that it is a good light way to store energy
and get the power out quickly when needed.

See:

http://hybrid-vehicles-reviews.com/

http://www.theaircar.com/

 

[MooseFET]

Compressed air power storage is horribly lossy.

Not from what I've read. The problem is the pumps. The Volvo
Flygmotor busses used hydraulic pumps and motors but the energy
storage was compressed air.

 

[John Larkin]

I'm getting 19MPG at 85MPH in my Q45 ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I'm getting 18 MPG in my 5-cylinder Rabbit, driving to/from work on
the hills of San Francisco. I average about 4000 miles per year.

John

 

[John Larkin]

And the number of pneumatic combined CD case stuffers and automobiles
currently on the road is....?

I just got my wife a Honda Fit, with electric power steering. Very
cool car.

It's the creamsicle orange/copper color. I'm soooo tired of seeing
entire blocks of cars that are all grey and silver and black.

John

 

[MooseFET]

I'm getting 18 MPG in my 5-cylinder Rabbit, driving to/from work on
the hills of San Francisco. I average about 4000 miles per year.

That would also be a hard environment for a non-special purpose
electric car. The very low speeds and a lot of starting on upgrades
etc would make for a low range in an electric. Since your trip is to
work and back, you can't be going far so an electric car would work
for you.

Far better would be to extend the cable car system. It takes a quite
low energy input per person moved.

It may be best if the Muni system was removed. From what I read in
the news, it kills more people than it takes safely to their
destination.

 

[MooseFET]

Not even wrong.

I've seen you use that line 3 times before. In each case it
introduced an incorrect, rambling in illogical argument. Lets see how
you do this time.

Energy per pound is TOTALLY MEANINGLESS for terrestrial vehicle apps.

Wrong here. One of the problems with lead acid batteries in electric
cars is their weight.

explanation.

Short form: tripling the mass density of gasoline would do jackshit for
tranaportation. Possibly lightening a vehicle by 26 pounds.

Conversely, finding a way to contain 13 pounds of hydrogen in a 26 pound
container flat out ain't gonna happen.

All of the above is nothing to do with compressed air so I wonder why
you included it.

Volume density is crucial.
Mass density is useless.

This is simply wrong.


I guess using your "not even wrong" as an indicator that you are about
to make a foolish and incorrect argument is a workable system.

 

[MooseFET]

kilograms please. Pounds are used only in Myanmar (Burma), Liberia and oh yes,
the USA.

They are used in the US. That is all that matters

You can't say that in isolation.

I didn't I said it in California.

If the volume becomes excessive (which it does
with compressed air) it's equally impractical.

The new carbon fiber pressure tanks are very light and extremely
strong. The amount of energy you have to store is less than enough to
make even a fraction of the whole trip. The range is determined by
the size of the gas tank.

And don't forget the weight of
the containment either (also a big problem - one of many - for hydrogen).

Hydrogen is a bad idea for many ideas. It tends to walk right through
the walls of the tank. We have no source of it that is better than
burning gas. The fuel cells are messy to manage over temperature.
The whole system ends up weighing a lot.

 

[Eeyore]

They are used in the US. That is all that matters

**** THE BLOODY USA

The best thing to do would be to erase all you ignorant fatties from the planet.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

The new carbon fiber pressure tanks are very light and extremely
strong.

Blah blah blah blah blah. Another stupid American

Do your schools teach intentional stupidity ?

Graham

 

[Gary Tait]

You will never see pneumatics in a bulldozer, and you will
never see hydraulics in a machine that puts CDs into CD
cases. Having worked as a design engineer for both Parker
Hydraulics and SMC Pnuematics, I don't see either of them
cutting into the other's business.

FWIW, I have seens both pnuematics and hyraulics on the same systems
before.
Pnuematics used for quick low power actuating (guiding product); the
plumbing and controls are a bit simpler, hydraulics for the bull work;
orbit motors and a hydraulic lift.

 

[James Arthur]

**** THE BLOODY USA

The best thing to do would be to erase all you ignorant fatties from the planet.

Graham

a) Could you please leave the non-bloody, lean portions? Thanks--
we're using them.

b) Remember that measurement system you left here a few centuries
ago? It seems the kids have gotten into it. Rather awkward, really.
We'll have it ready for pickup though...ANY time. PLEASE!

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Aug 8, 5:49 am, Eeyore <[email protected]>
wrote: [snip]

**** THE BLOODY USA

The best thing to do would be to erase all you ignorant fatties from the planet.

Graham

a) Could you please leave the non-bloody, lean portions? Thanks--
we're using them.

b) Remember that measurement system you left here a few centuries
ago? It seems the kids have gotten into it. Rather awkward, really.
We'll have it ready for pickup though...ANY time. PLEASE!

Cheers,
James Arthur

It is so sad. I just realized that Eeyore must be posting from a
mental institution ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[John Larkin]

That would also be a hard environment for a non-special purpose
electric car. The very low speeds and a lot of starting on upgrades
etc would make for a low range in an electric. Since your trip is to
work and back, you can't be going far so an electric car would work
for you.

We have a friend with a new Toyota hybrid, and she gets about the same
mileage that I do. Hauling all those batteries up and down the hills
isn't efficient.

Far better would be to extend the cable car system. It takes a quite
low energy input per person moved.

The cable cars are great fun, but they're slow and not very reliable.
I think the entire system is run by a single 500 HP electric motor.

It may be best if the Muni system was removed. From what I read in
the news, it kills more people than it takes safely to their
destination.

Some of Muni is great. It moves about 700K people per day, about equal
to the population. Most downtown workers, including over half of my
employees, take Muni to work. The best part is the underground Metro
lines, the electric busses, and the F line, the antique streetcars on
Market Street and the Embarcadero. The worst part is the diesel busses
that pollute and congest.


http://s2.supload.com/free/StreetCars.jpg/view/

http://s2.supload.com/free/30thStreet.jpg/view/

John

 

[John Larkin]

a) Could you please leave the non-bloody, lean portions? Thanks--
we're using them.

b) Remember that measurement system you left here a few centuries
ago? It seems the kids have gotten into it. Rather awkward, really.
We'll have it ready for pickup though...ANY time. PLEASE!

Hi, James,

Have you noticed the remarkable, virtually worldwide, correlation of
anti-Americanism with engineering incompetance? It makes sense when
you think about it.

John