What's that black dust in monitors?

[Don Klipstein]

The jet black soot from the inside of the monitor
case adjacent to the FBT never gets 'gooky'
no matter how much you rub it with your fingers.

Often feels a bit greasy to me when I do that!

Not here they arent. Quite a light brown, actually.


Dont get that either, if anything they are lighter.


What ? There are no electric fields near any of my cobwebs.

But where I live, half the time I work up a charge when I walk on my
carpet. 1/3 of the time I produce a serious charge dragging anything of
cloth over anything of a different fiber. And I believe this happens not
everywhere but a lot more than most people think, and DC electric fields
(although weaker than in a TV set) at least here-and-there in homes are
somewhat common much of the time.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

There aint no jet black soot/dust around here
except inside monitor cases adjacent to the FBT.

You just don't see it until it's concentrated enough to see.

But I have entirely electrical heating.

What does that have to do with anything?

The inside of a monitor case doesnt have that.

Certainly parts of the case closer to positive high voltage points would
have a positive charge, and in a few cases much of the inside of the case
can do that.
And in my TV-trashpicking days, I often saw the "electric black dust" on
some but not all of the inside surface of the case, and not on the chassis
nor on most of the circuit boards. I have seen more ordinary dust on the
chassis and the lower voltage components sometimes with the "electric
black dust" in higher potential areas and nonconductive interior surfaces
that could pick up positive charge from corona on positive high voltage
points.

They're lighter colored than the dust here.

Are your webs spider webs? My cobwebs are formed from dust and darker
and greasier/stickier (when rubbed with fingers enough) than other dust.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

All over this lead I have seen this stuff quite a few
times - although not always. Back in the late 1970's
and early 1980's when I was not yet working, TV sets
on the curb for trash pickup were a source of many
parts that I needed, so I have enough experience.

Sometimes is,

I doubt it.

and for whatever reasons it is still relevant that most
Tesla coils don't see the runtime that monitors do.

Sure, I said that.

But other relevant items are the fact that
a few Tesla coils see lots of operating
hours and also the lack of DC component
in the electric fields that they produce.

Do those have a fan

Not the ones I have used.

to bring in dust besides what the electric field would attract?
Don't they have the electric field more confined than TV sets have
Nope.

and lower voltages than TV sets have
Dunno.

so that the black sooty dust

None of that around here.

is less attracted until it gets sucked inside along with
other dust that dominates due to being sucked in by a fan?

The ones I was talking about have no fan.

(I have heard of a few older negative ion generators
that cause black dust to fly onto walls!)

Cant see how they can do that when there aint no black dust.

It is not usual; I am just saying it does sometimes happen. Maybe
specific to a restaurant where steak sandwiches are made

I get a completely different fatty/greasy deposit in that situation.

or where things get fried in deep fat friers
with partially hydrogenated soybean oil,
Ditto.

maybe cigarette smoke has something to do with it.
Ditto.

It does not seem to happen with most, nearly all fluorescent fixtures
elsewhere. And it stopped happening when the fixtures in the restaurant
in question were retrofitted with high frequency electronic ballasts and
T8 lamps as opposed to the older T12 lamps. But when the fixtures in
that restaurant had magnetic ballasts and T12 lamps, the fixtures did pick
up a little of that black dust that, when wiped with a paper towel, has
that "electric-black-dust-inside-a-TV" odor.

Another bit of data: The T12->t8 retrofit in that restaurant involved
reducing the number of lamps per 2-foot-by-4-foot fixture from 4 lamps to
2 lamps. Tolerance of burnt out lamps was greatly reduced - before the
retrofit, usually at any time a couple fixtures had a failed lamp. After
the retrofit they kept up something like 100% of the lamps in uptime
98-99% of the time. And I surely envision fluorescent lamps that have
experienced "end-of-life" having a DC electric field, since usually only
one end has a failed electrode.

 

[Rod Speed]

You just don't see it until it's concentrated enough to see.

I dont believe there is any at all, except there.

What does that have to do with anything?

Its obviously possible to get some black
soot with some combustion systems.

Certainly parts of the case closer to positive
high voltage points would have a positive charge,

Not the sheet metal bits close to the FBT and
they have the same jet black soot on them.

and in a few cases much of the inside of the case can do that.

But not the metal.

And in my TV-trashpicking days, I often saw the "electric black dust" on
some but not all of the inside surface of the case, and not on the chassis
nor on most of the circuit boards. I have seen more ordinary dust on the
chassis and the lower voltage components sometimes with the "electric
black dust" in higher potential areas and nonconductive interior surfaces
that could pick up positive charge from corona on positive high voltage points.

Are your webs spider webs?
Yep.

My cobwebs are formed from dust and darker and
greasier/stickier (when rubbed with fingers enough) than other dust.

Yep, but mine are lighter colored than the dust.

 

[Rod Speed]

Often feels a bit greasy to me when I do that!

But where I live, half the time I work
up a charge when I walk on my carpet.

OK, I dont have any carpet at all.

1/3 of the time I produce a serious charge dragging
anything of cloth over anything of a different fiber.

I avoid everything except cotton and wool as much as possible.

And I believe this happens not everywhere
but a lot more than most people think,

Yeah, seen that quite a bit in a work situation, particularly
with airconditioning in winter where you take the already
quite dry air and heat it up, making it even drier.

and DC electric fields (although weaker than
in a TV set) at least here-and-there in homes
are somewhat common much of the time.

Sure.

 

[Mike Harding]

Argghh....
to the eternal block-list I hereby consign you all,
"Dark Matter", "Rod Speed" and "Phil Allison"

You mean you don't think it's amusing watching three
fools spending hours arguing about... dust?

Mike Harding

 

[Don Klipstein]

Cant see how they can do that when there aint no black dust.

Or not visible until concentrated by those particular devices that
precipitate and concentrate such black dust into noticeable deposits?

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Rob Judd]

You mean you don't think it's amusing watching three
fools spending hours arguing about... dust?

It's a mote point.

Rob

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Or not visible until concentrated by those particular devices that
precipitate and concentrate such black dust into noticeable deposits?

Dont believe there is any thats invisible
when only electrical heating is used.

There may well be with other forms of heating
used, particular gas which isnt externally vented.

 

[Simon Harris]

Argghh....
to the eternal block-list I hereby consign you all,
"Dark Matter", "Rod Speed" and "Phil Allison"

Maybe no one actually cares what
some gutless fuckwit chooses to read ?

Block lists do actually work if you dont
announce what's in them, fuckwit.

But then you wouldnt be able to posture, would you ?

 

[Don Klipstein]

Its obviously possible to get some black
soot with some combustion systems.

But I have seen it in homes without combustion devices. Maybe it is
possible to get such black dust from neighbors or others upwind, and where
I am I certainly think the atmosphere has some soot from diesel-fueled
trucks and buses!

Not the sheet metal bits close to the FBT and
they have the same jet black soot on them.


But not the metal.

In my TV-trashpicking experience, the metal is not as much a target.

Yep.

That supports my assertions related to cobwebs, since I was talking
about ones that are not made by spiders. There is such a thing as cobwebs
made of nothing but dust, and apparantly guided into stringy forms by
electric fields and/or ionic currents, and these are quite common!

Yep, but mine are lighter colored than the dust.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

Dont believe there is any thats invisible
when only electrical heating is used.

I sure see many thousands of diesel trucks, enough of which spew soot
into the air. And more-badly-out-of-tune cars do some of the same. Along
with enough nearby buildings that have combustion sources, including
40-plus-year-old oil-fueled heating systems within a mile from me often
upwind from me. No matter how clean my home is in terms of not adding
soot to the air in it, I have to import air from elsewhere or else the CO2
level would become unacceptable and the oxygen level would drop from my
respiration. I get black dust accumulating in my TV and my monitor in a
4th floor apartment!
Heck, "particulates" ("usually from combustion and industrial processes"
as far as I remember) is usually the Number 2 air pollutant reported in my
metropolitan area and often at levels worse than "good"!

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Jackie]

What about me ????

I asked the original question and I still don't know !!!!!

Jackie

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I sure see many thousands of diesel trucks,
enough of which spew soot into the air.

You dont get much black soot inside houses from those.

And more-badly-out-of-tune cars do some of the same.

Nope. And bugger all of that ends up inside houses anyway.

Along with enough nearby buildings that have combustion
sources, including 40-plus-year-old oil-fueled heating
systems within a mile from me often upwind from me.

We dont see much of that anymore, oil fueled.

No matter how clean my home is in terms of not adding
soot to the air in it, I have to import air from elsewhere
or else the CO2 level would become unacceptable and
the oxygen level would drop from my respiration.

Doesnt mean you import much 'invisible soot'

I get black dust accumulating in my TV
and my monitor in a 4th floor apartment!

You claimed you get it everywhere, not just in the TV and monitor.

I dont buy that.

Heck, "particulates" ("usually from combustion and industrial processes"
as far as I remember) is usually the Number 2 air pollutant reported in
my metropolitan area and often at levels worse than "good"!

Yes, but that aint necessarily the jet black we are discussing.

Most smog seen with citys is actually brown, not jet black.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

But I have seen it in homes without combustion devices.

I doubt it with the jet black non greasy soot being discussed.

Maybe it is possible to get such black
dust from neighbors or others upwind,

I doubt it inside a house.

and where I am I certainly think the atmosphere
has some soot from diesel-fueled trucks and buses!

Bugger all of that ever gets inside houses, certainly bugger all
of that inside mine, and I have got that characteristic jet black
soot adjacent to the FBT in all monitors and nowhere else.

In my TV-trashpicking experience, the metal is not as much a target.

Its certainly got that jet black soot in all my monitors.

That supports my assertions related to cobwebs,
Nope.

since I was talking about ones that are not made by spiders.

No such animal.

There is such a thing as cobwebs made of nothing but dust,
Nope.

and apparantly guided into stringy forms by electric
fields and/or ionic currents, and these are quite common!

Nope. No such animal.

 

[Rod Speed]

What about me ????

I asked the original question and I still don't know !!!!!

A Japanese would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

Dont make a mess of the carpet.

 

[sPoNiX]

I have operated a couple for quite a few hours, and they did not attract
that dust.

An Ioniser is generally left on continuously and attacts 'particles'.

However, this tends to be brownish, not the black stuff that appears
in a monitor/TV Set.

sPoNiX

 

[Mjolinor]

An Ioniser is generally left on continuously and attacts 'particles'.

However, this tends to be brownish, not the black stuff that appears
in a monitor/TV Set.

I spend a lot of my life mending TVs so I see a lot. The colour of the dust
is definately related to location. In an office with photocopiers it will be
black, there is a bakery in our town and TVs from within that area have
white dust in, a smokers house has brown horrible smelly stuff (yes I do
smoke) and so on, some of them are absolute health hazards and you really
wouldn't want to touch them with a barge pole.

 

[DarkMatter]

Do those have a fan to bring in dust besides what the electric field
would attract? Don't they have the electric field more confined than TV
sets have and lower voltages than TV sets have so that the black sooty
dust is less attracted until it gets sucked inside along with other
dust that dominates due to being sucked in by a fan?

Even the most powerful models are only around 6kV.

Most large CRTs are between 15kV and 30kV. Some even higher than
that.

 

[DarkMatter]

If it was ordinary dust that carbonizes from corona, then I should have
found the dust accumulated somewhere on neon signs and connections thereto
to be of the "electric black dust" form. And I don't see how fluorescent
fixtures (in the unusual but known case that they accumulate some
"electric black dust") would carbonize ordinary dust.
But no, 10-year-old dust everywhere on neon signs seems more ordinary.
Looks more likely that the "electric black dust" is something different
and is different even as soon as it's precipitated from the air. It seems
to be a clue that cobwebs are also rather black in color.

I don't know. I know that a dusty surface ribbed with oily hands
moistens and blackens the dust.

When I score lines on a new, plastic project box for cuts to be
made, I can rub the scores with my fingers, and the dirt on my hands
alone will turn the scores to a black line.

Clothing colors darken upon getting moist or wet. I am certain that
dust will also follow this trend. So, even dust that is not initially
black could easily turn that way if ALSO moisture particles are being
drawn to the surface. Neons hove nowhere near the corona levels found
inside consumer monitors that have "open air" design HV components.

The military and space organizations have known about this, and have
fully potted HV sources for decades. The only remaining open air
stuff is that which is in transmitters, and they are fully caged.

The fact remains that it is indeed an accumulation, and NOT some
kind of emission, as has been earlier put forth by the idiot that
likes to attack me.