Whirlpool oven timer problem

[Harald Kapp]

Those closed ( fused /spot-welded together) contacts on that Hong Feng power relay seem to be your principal problem.

Not necessarily. As can be seen from the part number this is a 1 Form-B relay - normally closed (don't ask me why one would use such a type here).

As far as I can decipher the relay's part number is 006-1D(0060)
Which acc. to the datsheet would translate into

6 V, 1 Form B, Quick connect terminals vertical, AgNi contact material and some unindentifiabl customer special requirement.

 

[73's de Edd]

1 Form-B relay - normally closed . . . .
means you need to take the non powered board and use a 6VDC power source to touch to the relays end coil terminals ( small pins) and listen for a click and ohm out to see if the power contacts opened.
If so, then you need to connect the board to the ovens fast connect leads for the L1/N and L1HOT and see if 220VAC is preset when the ovens controls are properly set..
If 220VAC is constantly there , then switch metering to DC volts function and then carefully read across the far left E-cap to see if ~12VDC is present.
If so, then CAREFULLY have neg meter probe on center pin of LM7806 and see if meter positive probe is reading ~ that voltage on the far left pin (input) then shift meter positive lead to far right pin ( output ) , to see if it is reading ~6VDC out.
Then check over at relay coil terminal for that same 6VDC.
( Floating solder ring joints? )

What say you . . .now ?

73's de Edd

This old Foxy 86-105-111-16 Thunder jockey overheard this one, just the other day . . . .

An air traffic control tower suddenly lost communication with a small twin engine aircraft.
A moment later the tower land line rang and was answered by one of the employees.

The passenger riding with the pilot who lost communications was on a mobile phone and yelled
“Mayday, mayday!! The pilot had an instant and fatal heart attack. I grabbed his cell phone out
of his pocket and he had told me before we took off he had the tower on his speed dial memory.
I am flying upside down at 18,000 feet and traveling at 180 mph. Mayday, mayday!!”

The employee in the tower had put him on speaker phone immediately. “Calm down,
we acknowledge you and we’ll guide you down after a few questions.
The first thing is not to panic, remain calm!”

He began this series of questions:

Tower: “How do you know you are traveling at 18,000 feet?”
Aircraft: “I can see that it reads 18,000 feet on the altimeter Dial in front of me”.

Tower: “Okay, that’s good, remain calm. How do you know you’re traveling at 180 mph?”
Aircraft: “I can see that it reads 180 mph on the airspeed dial in front of me”.

Tower: Okay, this is great so far, but since it’s being so very heavily overcast, just exactly how do you know that you’re flying upside down?”
Aircraft: “All of the loose shit in my pants is running down and then its coming out of my shirt collar”.

.

 

[MDJolley]

Sir MDJolley . . . . .

If you pop the tabs on the pcb case (grey clear plastic)and show the other side of the pcb, there may be a different story.

If you (press back)the 2 far rear tabs on the pcb case (tough LEXAN plastic) and then fight the 4 minor side tabs,you may find more discrete surface mount parts on the other, hidden side of the PCB.

REPEAT REFRESH . . . . . .OF YOUR PRIOR IMAGE . . .
View attachment 62393

Sir MDJolley . . . . .

If you pop the tabs on the pcb case (grey clear plastic)and show the other side of the pcb, there may be a different story.

If you (press back)the 2 far rear tabs on the pcb case (tough LEXAN plastic) and then fight the 4 minor side tabs,you may find more discrete surface mount parts on the other, hidden side of the PCB.

REPEAT REFRESH . . . . . .OF YOUR PRIOR IMAGE . . .
View attachment 62393


I, also, am awaiting for . . . . the rest of the story . . . a la Paul Harvey
www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT_9L7ndCDAxVxnGoFHRjwBJkQwqsBegQIDhAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjQy3s4Pp4YA&usg=AOvVaw3MHGdZzI-HYdnzMnDag5Ku&opi=89978449

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe_G0kfv7E

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiT_9L7ndCDAxVxnGoFHRjwBJkQwqsBegQICRAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtYe_G0kfv7E&usg=AOvVaw0LPIsatDExU9bl3IIA1fnR&opi=89978449

The Solution . . . . .
Those closed ( fused /spot-welded together) contacts on that Hong Feng power relay seem to be your principal problem.

MY OBSERVATIONS . . . .
What I am seeing there (without benefit of the FULL viewing advantage of seeing the foil paths side of the PCB).
Is the top rear corners male Line / Neutral spade terminal . . . and assuredly, its companion male Line / Hot spade terminal that is just barely visible behind the left corner grey C2 poly cap.
Referring back to that Power relay, we see that it has a 6VDC coil.
That 6VDC low voltage supply is being derived by the 220 V 50~AC line voltage coming into the last AC HOT terminal ***and into the ~.68----1.0 ufd cap (C2) and out of it into a hidden ( to me ) diode rectifier / medium to then give rectified DC out of ~5v greater than 6VDC to one ( or both ) of the gold E-caps. (Fill us in on the capacitance and voltage specs) They then store up that slightly higher raw DC. It is then passed on up to the PVR1 regulator . . . highly being suspicioned as an LM7806 . . . . to let it then serve as the boards regulated 6V supply.
(Possibly that second gold E-cap was tied to the regulated 6VDC supply output .)( WHERE's da board foil pick-choor ? )

More detail on the C2 dropping cap . . . .
Its value was initially selected so that the incoming 220VAC @50~ power input initially encounted its capacitive reactance and then causeed a voltage drop thru it, but it is putting thru just a bit more loaded down power, than the boards max needs. Then the proper selection of additional series " trim " resistor(s) will drop down that excess voltage on down to the required raw voltage. ( Note the two 56 ohm metal film power resistors on board. )
The C2 poly cap is being a ruggedized X2 rated application type that can even be used wired directly across the AC line . . . . this one is only in series with the power. (Best that an AC line fuse's protection is also in circuit.)

THE REAL POWER SWITCHING . . . . . VIA POWER RELAY . . .

It looks like the Hong Feng HF115F-Q series relay at the bottom is the one that you want, as you can see its HEAVY-WIDE buss pairs are coming directly aside from the relay propers contacts and then folding up to become the push on terminals.
Now FAR better, that the limited current passage afforded by the old style, shown just above it.

View attachment 62392

HOW IS IT SUPPOSED TO WORK . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ?

I can see the L1N and L1HOT push on connectors receiving AC 220V@50~ line power input.
I can see an ISOLATED 1 and 1A push on connectors . . . . . only connecting to the separate heating element.
BEHOLD! . . .behind ye olde relay there is a Piezo sonalert alarm element .
Is the Piezo all self-contained, or does it require a driver ?
AND does it alert when the heater element turns off . . . . . or is the heating elements temp, pulse train controlled ?
With only the 4 AC power connections seen, how is this accomplished ?
(Wheredatpick-choorofdabackofadaboard?)

Whirlpool oven timer problem​

Lastly . . . . on your header, you should also have given that Pirlwhool's model number, so we could consult and check out its wiring diagram , for tracking down other routing and switching actions relative to your #18 post.

And lastly . . . . . . . . . . . . you ex-pat or contractor or Ukraine war husband​

SLAVA UKRAINE

View attachment 62394

Hello, I have taken the PCB out of its home... I tried to get as many angles as I could of it. There are definitely some other things going down on the other side. But I see nothing burnt or damaged. Of course, that is just a visual inspection. I've attached those images for your viewing pleasure.

"The Solution . . . . .
Those closed ( fused /spot-welded together) contacts on that Hong Feng power relay seem to be your principal problem."

Except that the diagram on the relay itself shows a normally closed circuit, which means that the microcontroller, which you can now see on the other side of the PCB, likely sends a signal to open that relay connection. That function I am still trying to understand, and I am still trying to wrap my head around the complete circuit at this time. I've got a lot of work these days, so I am just jumping in and testing here and there when I can.

(Fill us in on the capacitance and voltage specs) The two caps you see there on the timer are 10 volt 1000 microfarad capacitors. I also snapped a shot of the rest of the components, including the diode rectifier so we can see what is printed on it.

Oh yes, the model number...stupid me. It is a Whirlpoo (I swear someone in Ukraine labled it like this when looking for a replacement timer, so I adopted it under the circumstances) AKP 458/NB

Let me know if I forgot anything.

As far as Ukraine goes, I am from the USA, but living here for 11 years now. Well, I remember Paul Harvey, and used to listen to him when he was around and broadcasting 'RIP'. I appreciate the reply... and the journey to fix a gremlin continues.

 

[MDJolley]

Is that in relation to what was cooking in the oven or to some suspect electrical component.
Almost 99% of oven problems are related to the oven heater element be it burnt out or the spade terminal connections being bad.
Very seldom will a timer die especially with no physical signs.(so far at least)

If you pop the tabs on the pcb case (grey clear plastic)and show the other side of the pcb, there may be a different story.
Just may have to take care at what the construction is on the other side, things like spring loaded contacts etc.

You were right. The problem was the bottom element. I appreciate the time you took to reply and help me, and that also goes for the other guys in this thread that spent time trying to help me figure it out. Only reason I didn't get to testing them sooner was that I had an avalanche of work to do. Once again, thanks for your guys' valuable time, and sharing your knowledge. It is very much appreciated.