[Rich Grise]

There are no free lunches, except for the homeless.

They're not really free - you have to sit through a sermon. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joel Kolstad]

They're not really free - you have to sit through a sermon. ;-)

I wonder if anyone's been prompted to make a web site of various free food
locations (both government and privately -- usually church -- sponsored) and
kind of "rated" them on the quality of the food and "price" (nothing, fill out
government forms, listen to a sermon, etc.).

I once volunteered at a neighborhood center messing with the computers, and
they occasionally had a food pantry day where people could come and take
whatever goods they had available, no questions asked. Some of it was pretty
good stuff too, like 5 lb. blocks of cheese!

Not that I'd wish being hungry or homeless on anyone, of course -- it's a
rotten way to have to live.

 

[Jerry Avins]

Allen [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:


In the *nix world there is a program called ispell, one interface,
works for any application, has multiple dictionaries and languages,
is fully internationalized, learns new words on the fly, and has
dictionary editing. Does that sound like what your asking for?

I've used it. It was my model. Another example of Windows ans Apple )I
think) lagging behind.

Jerry

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Backhoe, backhoe, its off to work we go....

I expect the cable infrastructure costs end up something like
telephones. For telephones, estimates are usually that >80% of
investment is in copper under the street. They don't call the last mile
problem a problem for no reason.

Steve

There is no Copper in fiber (except for the amps). The short run in to
the subscriber is minimal.

 

[Al in Dallas]

Randy Yates wrote:

[a bunch of crap about CATV]

That shows that you know absolutely nothing about CATV. The typical
break even point on a new system is ten years, unless you have enough
cash to build out of pocket. A headend was in the $1,000,000 range in
the early '80s, and almost $20,000 a mile for trunkline (.75"). You had
toe add the feed lines (.50") bridger amp for the trunk housings, line
extender amplifiers and directional taps before you could connect the
first customer. You have to do an exhaustive 'Proof of Performance' to
get permission from the FCC to operate the system.

Even then, by the time the first build is paid off there are system
extensions and upgrades to finance, lots of other operating expenses,
and morons damaging your physical plant with construction equipment,
acts of God, and drunk drivers. Don't forget mommy's little assholes
who destroy pedestals, just for the hell of it.

What are pedestals?

[snip]

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Backhoe, backhoe, its off to work we go....

I expect the cable infrastructure costs end up something like
telephones. For telephones, estimates are usually that >80% of
investment is in copper under the street. They don't call the last mile
problem a problem for no reason.

There is very little copper in CATV systems, and hasn't been for
about 50 years. Aluminum and steel, copper plated only where necessary
ar the materials of choice. Fiber optic is replacing supertrunks, and
in time will probably all be converted to FIOS.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Don Bowey]

There is no Copper in fiber (except for the amps). The short run in to
the subscriber is minimal.

Where did he mention fiber? Lots of pair-gain equipment is still served by
T1 Carrier on copper.

 

[Mark Zenier]

It wouldn't be a problem if the stations operating under the must
carry rule had anything useful to broadcast. In most cases, they
purchase canned programming and advertising, which are just clones of
what you can watch on any of the major networks. Sometimes, they're
even transmitted simultaneously with the major networks. If you've
ever notice the same junk on multiple stations, that's why. The big
draw for these stations is that they can proclaim that they have a
huge audience, primarily due to the cable audience. Drop the rule,
and their broadcast only audience will be comparatively zilch.

One big reason for "Must Carry" are the religious broadcasters.
Channel surfing around several years ago, I heard the big cheese at
TBN, (Crouch?), talking about their operation and talked about "Must
Carry" and thanked the viewers for helping lobby their congressmen.
So they're there on your cable to get "God's Word" out to the masses.
Even if nobody is watching.

Mark Zenier [email protected]
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Randy Yates wrote:

[a bunch of crap about CATV]

That shows that you know absolutely nothing about CATV. The typical
break even point on a new system is ten years, unless you have enough
cash to build out of pocket. A headend was in the $1,000,000 range in
the early '80s, and almost $20,000 a mile for trunkline (.75"). You had
toe add the feed lines (.50") bridger amp for the trunk housings, line
extender amplifiers and directional taps before you could connect the
first customer. You have to do an exhaustive 'Proof of Performance' to
get permission from the FCC to operate the system.

Even then, by the time the first build is paid off there are system
extensions and upgrades to finance, lots of other operating expenses,
and morons damaging your physical plant with construction equipment,
acts of God, and drunk drivers. Don't forget mommy's little assholes
who destroy pedestals, just for the hell of it.

What are pedestals?

Those green steel or plastic cabinets in the right of way where the
electronics for Telephone and CATV distriubution.

<http://images.google.com/images?q=C...F-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYA&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi>


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

[email protected] (Mark Zenier) hath wroth:

One big reason for "Must Carry" are the religious broadcasters.
Channel surfing around several years ago, I heard the big cheese at
TBN, (Crouch?), talking about their operation and talked about "Must
Carry" and thanked the viewers for helping lobby their congressmen.
So they're there on your cable to get "God's Word" out to the masses.
Even if nobody is watching.

Mark Zenier [email protected]
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Yep. There's also quite a few channels that are wall to wall
advertising that benifit.

Much more interesting is the ratio of actual viewers that watch over
the air channels, versus the same channels via cable or satellite. It
varies considerably by area, but for metro audiences, methinks it
tends to be about 20% or less that watch over the air, while the rest
are on cable or satellite[1]. In upscale neighborhoods, over the air
viewers are near zero (because they can better afford cable or
satellite).

A quick view of the rooftops of most neighborhoods will currently show
very few outside antennas. New construction, with CC&R's will show
none. Since HDTV broadcasting requires a much better signal, and by
implication a functional antenna, than analog TV, one would expect
retailers to carry huge numbers of gold plated yagi bird roosts. They
don't.

It seems that the listening audience of over the air broadcasting has
become the local cable head end. Even that's not really true as most
local video feeds come via terrestrial fiber to the headend. Anyway,
a clue is that the only way the broadcasters were going to go to
digital was if the channels were free, and the cable operators were
forced to carry the junk.

[1] Based on personal experience and limited polling. I couldn't find
any accurate numbers with Google. Does anyone have any better info?

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

What are pedestals?

[snip]

Cable talk for the plastic "lock box" pedestal that sits on the ground
above an underground feed to your house, protecting the taps.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Where did he mention fiber?

Fiber is how most cable systems carry main trunks now.

Lots of pair-gain equipment is still served by
T1 Carrier on copper.

Bwuahahahah... Cable is and has been, as far as hard line goes,
aluminum for decades. The drop to your house is a STEEL center conductor
with a very minimal copper cladding.

He referred to CABLE infrastructure, dipshit, not ma bell.

 

[JosephKK]

Jerry Avins [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

...


Or buy an antenna and forgo the cable junk.

Jerry

Unfortunately, the few channels i want are cable or satellite only.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

One big reason for "Must Carry" are the religious broadcasters.
Channel surfing around several years ago, I heard the big cheese at
TBN, (Crouch?), talking about their operation and talked about "Must
Carry" and thanked the viewers for helping lobby their congressmen.
So they're there on your cable to get "God's Word" out to the masses.
Even if nobody is watching.

Mark Zenier [email protected]
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Must carry was around LONG before the religious TV stations were
common. The cable company in Orlando decided to drop the local station,
and import a signal from Gainsville in 1987 or 1988. Their customers
raised enough 'hell' to get it changed back.

The cable company made the change without informing the local station.
(Which was either WIYE or WACX at that time. I can't remember the exact
dates and the call letters were changed while I worked there.) As one
of the Broadcast engineers at Ch 55 I had to explain, repeatedly to
people that the very bad signal they were watching wasn't ours. The
only thing that convinced some of them was to get them to turn on a
spare TV that wasn't on Cable and tune it to Ch 55 to see that the
program was different.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

What are pedestals?

[snip]

Cable talk for the plastic "lock box" pedestal that sits on the ground
above an underground feed to your house, protecting the taps.

Yes, the same name as the phone company. In fact, in some places the
only way to tell them apart is the company's ID label.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Totally available.

My first HDTV tuner will put out onto std 4:3 TVs no problem. Looks
far better than anything else that TV ever displayed too.

Try WalMart, and the USDigital HDTV tuner. Bigger brand names also
make them.

A tuner is not a converter. According to the official HDTV websites,
they wouldn't go on sale till next year. The cost, after the voucher is
supposed to be in the $20 range.

You're wrong, as usual.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

A tuner is not a converter.

You're an idiot. An HDTV TUNER that ALSO puts out onto 4:3 TVs IS a
converter, you retarded fuckhead!

According to the official HDTV websites,
they wouldn't go on sale till next year. The cost, after the voucher is
supposed to be in the $20 range.

You're wrong, as usual.

I have owned mine for nearly three years, and you are an utter retard,
as usual.

 

[Gary Tait]

You're an idiot. An HDTV TUNER that ALSO puts out onto 4:3 TVs IS a
converter, you retarded fuckhead!

It depends on your perspective.

Such boxes are technically tuners that output the signle tuned channel.
They are not "convertors" in the sense they do not convert all the
digital channels to analog for an older TV to tune.

I have owned mine for nearly three years, and you are an utter retard,
as usual.

Again perspective.

Digital OTA tuners have been sold for years now. It is just the voucher
program is not in effect yet, and I don't think that voucher eligble
tuners are in stores yet.

 

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Gary Tait wrote:
(snip)

It depends on your perspective.

Such boxes are technically tuners that output the signle tuned channel.
They are not "convertors" in the sense they do not convert all the
digital channels to analog for an older TV to tune.

I remember in the days of UHF getting more popular, and using
a converter box that output on VHF channel 3. This can be done
with the appropriate mixer and LO, without converting the input
to baseband. It does involve tuned circuits, but does not
convert all (70) UHF channels to be tuned on a (12 channel)
VHF tuner.

I believe there were/are block converters from cable channels
to UHF which do convert all at once. Most cable boxes don't
do that, though. Early (analog) ones did the down conversion
similar to the UHF conversion described above. Most now likely
go to baseband and then remodulate for those without video inputs.

The distinction between 'tuner' and 'converter' is fuzzy.
I don't believe that there is a convenient way to block convert
the ATSC input to NTSC output. One could build a box with
multiple tuners, decoders, and modulators but I doubt that
would be for the consumer market.

The box needs an ATSC tuner, and the logic to convert the
result to an NTSC analog signal. Most likely with both video
and RF outputs. The output of the ATSC tuner is the digital
signal, not suitable for an analog TV, so the box needs
both a tuner and converter.

-- glen

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

It depends on your perspective.

Such boxes are technically tuners that output the signle tuned channel.
They are not "convertors" in the sense they do not convert all the
digital channels to analog for an older TV to tune.

I most certainly does exactly that. It is meant for HDTV, and puts out
a wide from factor picture. It ALSO has a built in converter, which
allows the user to set it up for use with an older 4:3 analog TV.

It does so flawlessly, and yes, that does qualify it 100% as a
"converter".

Again perspective.

You're an idiot, and are NOT familiar with the device I refer to.

Digital OTA tuners have been sold for years now. It is just the voucher
program is not in effect yet, and I don't think that voucher eligble
tuners are in stores yet.

Bullshit side topic of the basic argument in this sub-thread.

The fact remains that the tuner I mentioned IS an HD OTA tuner that
does 100% all channel conversion to a letterboxes 4:3 output for wide
HDTV Digital Content, and standard 4:3 for "digital TV" channels.

Do I really need to hook the fucker up, and take photo screen shots of
the set-up menus? Sheesh.