Dazza

Ante, my original idea when I started this project, was to use a separate alternator and battery. One of the reasons for this was if something was to go wrong electronically, it wouldn't give an opportunity to damage any of the original electrical systems of the vehicle. Since I started this project I have learnt a lot, and a lot has changed from the way I originally wanted this system to work. One of the things I have learnt is just how difficult it can be to make something work a certain way, especially when there is a lot that I don't understand. So from where we are now with this project, we can use the vehicles existing battery to supply power to the electrical system, as well as the power for start up. The second alternator will be kept isolated as much as possible, except for supplying power to the reactor. This is looking a little easier. Maybe now I won't need to jump up and down on the bonnet/hood, Ante, I'm feeling confident I can put these circuits together, and see how they go. I have one more circuit I would like to have on the drawing board, before I put in an order for every think that I need from farnell. Eventually the pressure sender unit on the hydrogen output side of the reactor will control the PWM. As I mentioned before, I will need a device that will give a dampening effect. When the pressure drops quickly the sender unit will force the PWM to respond quickly, and in turn the alternator and regulator. I can see this being a problem, and an unnecessary demand on the system. So when the pressure drops quickly. Due to demeaned for hydrogen from the engine, the pressure sender unit will force the PWM to respond accordingly, so this device will need to prevent the PWM from responding so quickly, creating the dampening effect,I hope you get what I mean. Much like the effect of a shock absorb on your car.

I am one of those most people. You would have thought I would have clicked on that paper clip, by accident at least once, then I would have realised it was there for a reason. It would have made things simpler, instead of saving the file and then viewing it. Maybe I should click on every little thing that I see on my screen, just to be sure it doesn't do something ;D ;D.

I don't know about warning the Swede, but discussing with him how we can ensure his extensive range of high quality home-made alcoholic beverages, can be kept safe and sound, would be a priority :o. Safety is always at the top of my list, especially when dealing with things I am unfamiliar with. Ante, tips on safety are always welcome, no matter how trivial it may seem.

Ante, adding an extra alternator to most vehicles can be difficult, but not impossible. But adding two extra alternators can prove to be a real challenge for any vehicle. This is why I think a solution to this problem at this stage would be a good idea. Trying to keep component count down is always a good thing, but sometimes unavoidable. My powers of innovation in this area, electronics aren't so good ante. if it is going to work with a hire component count then this is how it has to be. Maybe later on down the track, another solution may be found. You say that efficiency will not be so good, this is not a good thing for a system like this, poor efficiency is our enemy. Can you give an idea on what amounts of energy will be lost. We may be able to view the energy loss as a necessary evil four the time being.

Thanks steven, I found it :).

steven, it looks good. But I want that Dick Smith one ;D ;D, or is that it you posted on this page

Yes steven, the one you posted from a kit ;D.

Steven, I would really like to put that transistor tester together 8). have you already posted the circuit for it somewhere, or are you still, to find it to post :).

Sorry ante, you can't claim the prize for being blurry, I am clearly the winner ;D. Yes ante I want to use the same alternator to maintain the charge of the battery, you are on track. Yes a second alternator would be possible, but I desperately do not want to do this. How can I incorporate a current limiting circuit for keeping the battery charged. The battery is there to supply power to produce hydrogen for start-up, as well as good stable power for any other electrical device needed in this system. So I'm wanting to keep the alternator isolated as much as possible, from anything else except to supply power to the reactor, and maintain charge to the battery. Maybe what I'm trying to do, is something that can't be done the way that I want. This is my downside, their is so much I just don't know :-\. I hope you don't lose patience with me ante.

Ante, those questions are something I think I will only know, by research and experimenting 8). Sometimes the most unlikely solution to a problem, can sometimes be the best solution. Or even lead to new technology/discoveries. You would expect that maximum resonating effect upon the water molecule, at its ideal frequency would yield the best results. Maybe I could even look at experimenting with electromagnetic fields, although I cannot see what affect it would have, if any. I sure am in for a lot of trial and error, to get this system right ;D.

This is a change of pace ante, and for a change I do have some answers. How I came about to understand how microwave ovens work. It was many years ago and I was working as a labourer for a small electrical company for about three months, probably the most interesting and exciting job I have ever had, they also had a small electronic repair shop which had their first microwave oven come in for repair. There electronic technician had left some months earlier and they had employed a young electronic enthusiast until they could find someone qualified. As an interesting point, he was completely illiterate and he could outperform any electronic technician they new. Very encouraging for me ante. So they could not let their technician repair it, too dangerous and they were already taking a big risk letting him repair other equipment. One of the electricians had taken an interest on how microwaves worked. So it was the task of the qualified electrician and the electronic technician to fix it, and I was lucky enough to be able to offside, there was quite a lengthy discussion on how microwaves worked. So now that I board you ante ::), I will try to explain what I learned from them on how microwave ovens work. The frequency of the microwave was chosen because it could penetrate matter to a certain degree. If the frequency was chosen to high or to low the microwaves would either pass through matter or penetrate very little, so a frequency somewhere in between that could penetrate to roughly a central point, of the type of matter that will be penetrated. which of course is different types of food water etc, now as I am to understand, it doesn't really matter the amount of power you apply to the frequency being radiated, within reason. The penetrating effect will be virtually the same. So cause and effect, the microwaves energy have penetrated matter to appoint where they can go no further. The molecules absorbed the energy from the microwaves causing them to vibrate, the friction of the molecules vibrating or rubbing against each other generating heat. so if you want a greater effect that is generate more heat, you apply more power to the same frequency. The same principle would apply to radar, the frequency is chosen to be able to penetrate matter reasonably well with as little effect on the molecules as possible, which in this case is the molecules/matter in the atmosphere, and also not to be able to penetrate other types of matter such as aircraft, in this case the signal will bounce back to be detected. So for radar to be capable of detecting aircraft over a great distances, you would need to apply more power to the chosen microwave frequency, because of the loss of energy absorbed by the matter/molecules in the atmosphere. Submarines also use radar and the same principle applies, although if they want to detect other submarines over a great distance, they would need an enormous amount of power due to the loss of microwave energy penetrating through the water. Hopefully I'm not too far off the mark ;D.

Hi xenobius, why don't you just use an adjustable voltage regulator :).

Ante, I was thinking that a small magnetron would be a little less risky and easier to manage, then a larger one from a microwave oven. If I was to use a microwave oven/magnetron, it would be very difficult to use for experimenting with, because it can only be turned on at full power. I can't let the water boil, it has to be kept cool with a heat exchange. Large magnetron affecting a small volume of water = very fast reaction, maximum resonating effect, water heats and boils quickly, very difficult to maintain temperature to prevent boiling. Small magnetron affecting the same volume of water = small amount of resonating effect, water heats slowly, not to difficult to maintain temperature with heat exchange, I am really not sure on how I can go about conducting experiments using a microwave oven, or a magnetron from it, a microwave puts out such a high output, I would have to use a large volume of water, to try to mimic the way that it will work in the reactor. I would have to try to find a way to contain and measure the volume of hydrogenbeing produced. This would be a very large device for experimenting with. Maybe a large plastic sealable drum , 10 litres and direct the microwaves from the bottom upwards, then place the electrodes towards the bottom and then I would have to shield the whole thing. I could use a tube coming out of the top of the drum and collect the hydrogen and oxygen being produced into another drum filled with water, the hydrogen and oxygen will displace the water then the oxygen and hydrogen can be measured. This might work, I would be able to position the electrodes hire or lower in the drum, the microwaves should be stronger at the bottom and weaker at the top. Well this doesn't seem so difficult now. But "WOW" this device would give the perfect opportunity for a disaster. High-voltage, water, explosive gases, microwaves, what a cocktail :o. I may become famous after all, the first person to get electrocuted, burnt and blown up, all in one go. ;D ;D ;D

Ante, the collector of Q2 should be going to the positive side, I really should not of made that mistake :-[. R4 was in the original circuit, I thought the same thing why is it there, maybe it had a function in the original circuit, I wasn't sure so I left it :-\. Yes SW1= ignition switch. Yes automotive relays for RLY1 and RLY2 they are cheap and I have a few laying around. You say it's a good idea to use diodes just to be sure with relays in a circuit, that makes sense to me why take the chance 8). Ante, I'm not sure what you mean when you say (Can you walk me through it so I know how ;D (if) ;D you are thinking please?) Are you asking me to explain( walk through) how I am wanting this circuit to function, or how I am wanting it to function with Q2 collector connected to the negative side of the alternator, which is a stupid mistake. I wish I could promise I wouldn't make those sort of mistakes again, But I will do my best :). (Is the positive output suppose to attached to the field coil) I'm not sure what is wrong here ante, this is wrong? Can you see a better way.

Ante, I think you are right 8). I'm still trying to find my feet, on the best way to go about developing and putting together these circuits :P. Well this is the result of starting over from scratch. The three relays are activated together by the RPM sensor switch via W3. RLY3 is there to stop the field coil receiving any current until the engine is started. RLY1 and RLY2 is there to allow 12V to the reactor for start-up, and once started switched on by the RPM sensor switch, to isolate the 12V from the high voltage supplied by the alternator to the reactor, U4 and U3 are now supplied by the 12V battery. Well I think this is looking a little better, what do you think ante. Have I made things better or worse ???.

Ante, I am trying to reason with the possibility of making my own magnetron :o, can you see any problems with a magnetron maintaining its same function, if I was to replicate it exactly to a small-scale, I'm just considering the possibility 8). What I really need to know at this stage is what size magnetron do I need, it is a very small area that I need the microwave's to affect, it would only need to be an area of say half a glass of water, and it can be much less than that with careful designing of the reactor, which I have spent a lot of time on designing and is looking very promising 8). So in knowing the area that I need the microwave to affect, I then need to try to work out what size magnetron I need, and then the power required for that magnetron. It's the resonating affect of microwaves on molecules that I am wanting, not the heat generated from the friction of the molecules being vibrated rapidly, a good heat exchange system will be important. I think using a magnetron from a microwave for this application, would be like building a dog kennel the size of your house ;D ;D. Some questions that I need to find answers to. The size magnetron I need to produce the resonating affect on the required area. The amount of resonating affect on the molecules needed, to increase the process of electrolysis. The optimum frequency of the microwave's. 2.45 GHz is what manufacturers of microwaves ovens have chosen and they would no more than me, but my invention is not a microwave oven so you never know. How much power required for this process, of course there will be other factors that will need to be known first. Does the microwaves increase the process of electrolysis, enough that efficiency is not lost but increased, I think this can only be known by trying. A microwave is not very efficient, in respect to what I want to use it for, so what is the best efficiency I can expect from a microwave/magnetron. Yes magnetrons in microwave ovens are cheap because their mass produced, do you have any idea on what you would expect to pay for a small magnetron, knew or second-hand. ??? I asked my Swedish neighbour about magnetrons, he told me he through two small perfectly good magnetrons away before he moved here. Just my luck :'(, I told him he should have known I would want them, even though he didn't know me then ;D.

By the looks of things I need a magnetron that is a third of the size, or maybe smaller. Has anyone invented a shrinking Ray yet :o. Does anyone know of a device, that contains a small magnetron. Or maybe another way it could be done. ante, have ya got any old radar equipment in the backroom at work ;D ;D. Thanks for the links ante, good stuff :).

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Thanks Suraj, their sure is a lot of information on microwaves their ;). Steven, I found the circuit you posted, but I can't understand how it works,( lack of knowledge ;D) is it for producing microwave energy.

I would like to understand how a microwave oven works. I would like to experiment with microwave's, to be used in conjunction with electrolysis for producing hydrogen. From what I understand on how microwave ovens work, by vibrating molecules to create heat. I think it may be possible to reduce the energy needed to produce hydrogen, by using microwave's to help loosen the bond of the molecules, and resulting in less power needed for the process of electrolysis. I think it's worth looking into, even if it doesn't reduce the power needed for producing hydrogen by much. And if I do use microwave's with my experiments. I understand there is a safety issue, adequate shielding will be needed, as well as using microwave detector devices to ensure I contained the dangerous radiation. Is there any microwave experts out there ???. Thank you for any help :).

It looks good to me. But keep in mind I am only a learner. The mechanical side of a vehicle is more my expertise

Ante, I think I know how I have to go about this now. I'll say that again I think ;D. I'm going to start from scratch, instead of trying to modify these schematics and making a big mess. I have the first schematics that I modified in front of me, as well as the one I just posted, I am starting to see how I can make it all work. And with any luck I won't make your head spin again :o. Well maybe just a little ;D. I think I might use two relays one in place of Q5, and the other one for the negative return to the battery from the reactor, these two relays can be then turned on to supply power to the reactor for start-up, and then switched off by the RPM sensor. I think using relays here will solve a lot of problems.

This may help. A post from Ante, helping me with my project. Mud is the word my friend, on some points I can see what you are aiming for. If you want an indication that the engine has started just use the charge indicator light. This takes no sophisticated electronics to achieve. When the ignition is turned on (see picture) the charge indicator lamp gets positive from the battery and negative through the alternator (not charging). When the engine is

He did mention that they were popular in China 8). Maybe that's why they don't think they need a good marketing strategy ::).

You would think that the first thing to mention would be its power output. Anyone looking for a inverter, usually wants to POWER something from it. ;D