Auto/deep cell charger

[oldgrandpainmi]

Hello all.

I understand the difference between a standard lead/acid automotive battery versis a deep cell lead/acid battery.  What I would like to know is the actual difference between the corresponding chargers. 

I run deep cells while fishing, and am aware that using a standard charger will not work correctly and you shouldn't charge a deep cell on an automobile (jumper cables).

Is there a circuit available for a typical 2/15/100 automatic charger? (2a slow charge, 15a fast charge, 100a start)  Building one is out of the question, as it is much cheaper to buy than build, so the circuit would be for my reference.

I also would like to know if there are any problems trying to charge 3 or 4 deep cells on a charger at once?  (parrellel hook-up)

Lasty, is there a way to rejuvinate lead/acid battery's, much like rejuvinating NiCad's?? (NiCad Zapper)

Any ideas?

oldgrandpainmi

 

[Kasamiko]

Maybe something like this?

Lead_Acid_Rejuvenator.pdf

 

[indulis]

Check out the battery section on this website.....

http://www.golfcarcatalog.com/phpbb2/

When a lead-acid battery is "gone", it is GONE!! No amount of "zapping" is going to bring it back to life... you can't change the laws of physics!!

 

[oldgrandpainmi]

Kasamiko,

Thanks for the artical.  It is the same basic idea I have used for NiCad's for years.  (Charge a cap and discharge it to the battery).  But you have to remind me about the capacitors.  They are listed (for example) 100mf and 10nf.  I know this is not what they actually are, as a 100 millifarad cap won't fit on this PCB and a 10 nanofarad cap is unreal, so I ask, is it actually 100uF and 10 pF?  It is stated elseware in a different thread, but I am running out the door for work.  I am also curious to see if the wire wound inductors can be hand wound?  Have any idea?
I would rather try this than to spend $50-100 every other year for batterys for my boat.  If I could discharge an auto battery like I deep cell, I'd save a lot of $$ every year!!!!

indulis:

This is not necessarily true!!!  I have had auto and deep-cell batterys (I have one now) that will charge to 90% and discharge after 1/2 hour thru a typical load.  I think a "Zapper" will work to rejuvinate this one.  I have thrown out batterys that start with 0vdc and after 3 hours, can't reach 50% voltage.  I believe this is the type of problem you speak of.  I see SO MANY battery's for sale for $5 that it MAY be worth building this circuit just to see if 50% of them can be rejuvenated.  It then would be worth it. 
I see the same thing said about NiCad's.  "If they can't hold a charge, then replace them!"  This is wrong!!!  A NiCad "Zapper" can and will zap 50%-75% back to life.(95%+ of origonal capacity)  You have to zap individual cells in a multi-cell pack, but it is cheaper than paying $165 for this laptop battery or %$250 for the laptop I just pitched!!!!  I know this for fact, as I used to do it for friend and relatives.  The biggest problem is that 25%-50% of the zapped batterys will get destroyed internally, but when you can save a few dozen, it makes it worth it!!!

oldgrandpainmi

 

[oldgrandpainmi]

Kasamiko,

I just got home from work and looked for your reply, then it hit me!!!
For the example I used, a 100mF cap = .1uF ,

 

[indulis]

A 220uH inductor is the same as a .22mH
m is 10^-3 and u is 10^-6 and n is 10^-9 and p is 10^-12

Once the chemistry of a lead acid battery is depleted, NO AMOUNT OF ZAPPING WILL BRING IT BACK TO LIFE, PERIOD!!! This is a irrefutable fact... the zapper company just wants to sell you some gadget. The same laws of physics/chemistry that apply to you and me, applies to them. If you can't get back to the batteries original ampacity, nothing has been rejuvinated. Hell, I can take a lead acid battery that has a shorted cell, over charge it and it will work just fine in a car as long as I start and charge it every morning and evening. If this is what you consider "rejuvinated" then yes you are right and it will work. For my money, if you can't get back to the original spec's window, than no rejuvination has taken place.

 

[ante1]

Hi oldgrandpainmi,

I have been into testing different methods of reviving lead acids through the last two decades. One of my circuits is posted here: http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/power/036/index.html

 

[indulis]

...The object is to get the cell voltage high enough for the sulphate to dissolve...

Ante

Do you by chance have the "chemistry" to support that statment.... I'd love to see it!!

Indulis

 

[ante1]

Hi Indulis,

I am not a chemist; I don’t have any chemical formulas to give. The important thing to mention here is; the battery must be mechanically in good condition for this to work. If the plates inside are damaged or out of alignment causing short circuit there is no chance what so ever to revive the battery.
What I can tell you is; the sulphate crystals become harder the longer they are allowed to be left alone thus harder to dissolve which makes it impossible for a standard charger to cure. If you apply a higher voltage than the standard charger normally does the battery will boil and overheat and destroyed completely. If a battery is well charger at all times the forming of crystals are kept to a minimum. I have tried this method/circuit against many types of chargers and it does its job where other “special” chargers fail.

 

[oldgrandpainmi]

Ante,

I downloaded your circuit and will look at it further this evening.
I did notice that the primary voltage is 230vac at 50hz.

 

[ante1]

Hi Bruce,

The only thing that comes to mind is the snubber circuit around the triac. You will find suitable values for 60Hz in the data sheet of the triac you chose to use for the circuit. The nF is nano Farad which equals 1000pF or 1 thousand of a mF (uF).

 

[oldgrandpainmi]

I got a reply from the author.

Yep, a nonofarad (n) = a nanofarad, but a Microfarad (m in Europe) = uF U.S.!  I figured that if they used a different symbol for Micro, then they would have used a different for Nano, which isn't the case.  Thus the confusion.

Also, L1 is a .22mH (220uH) not a 220mH as stated throughout the artical.  I found a neat link on how to build these inductors here:

http://colomar.com/Shavano/inductor_info.html

oldgrandpainmi

 

[MP1]

...

View attachment 39145

 

[oldgrandpainmi]

MP,

Makes more sence that what I've been running into.

1000pF=1nF
1000uF=1mF
Etc.

Just have to remember to convert and re-convert before I look for parts in my suppliers manuals,

 

[MP1]

http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/Ind-SlugTu/Ind-SlugTu-6.html
http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/Ind-SlugTu/Ind-SlugTu-4.html
Hope it is helpful.

MP

 

[Kasamiko]

Those markings are really pain in the A*S!!

just like my other post about capacitors with the markings

100k
220k

Too unusual to find such marking but they do exist. maybe it means
100,000 nF (NanoFarad) = 0.1uF (MicroFarad)