[Natalie]

Er we hate him as much as the rest of Aust. Apart from Collingwood
supporters that is.

Actually I live in NSW, and I don't really have an issue with him.

Natalie

 

[Who_tat_me]

[snip]

Who cares about Eddie Maguire?

Victorians

Er we hate him as much as the rest of Aust. Apart from Collingwood
supporters that is.

Actually I live in NSW, and I don't really have an issue with him.

I live in NSW too and I don't have an issue with him either, other than that
he's Victorian.

 

[Who_tat_me]

28,10,9,7,2 (Sydney)

Have you looked at
http://www.aba.gov.au/tv/digitaltv/planning/nsw/ch_nsw.htm to see whether
you're closer to a set of UHF sites. There are digital transmitter sites at
Kings Cross and Manly as well as the original sites that you're probably
pointing at. These might provide you with a better picture.

 

[dewatf]

The 2008 date is - as I said - only a target. There is actually no
legislated cutoff date.

For metropolitian areas the legislation states that the simulcast
period is to run for the proscribed 8 years from the introduction of
digital. At the end of that period the analogue spectrum is to be
handed back to the Government to be sold off. That is till the end of
2008.

As stated in the media realease announcing the inquiry, "the Australian
public has not bought into the technology, and it is anticipated that
digital television will be taken up by less than 50 per cent of Australian
households by 2008".

A guestimate in a media release of what percentage have taken up the
technology by 2008 has nothing what so ever to do with the
legislation.

I use the word "majority" on that basis, but it would be likely that a
"large majority" would be required before they would consider cutting any
area over to digital.

A large majority would be sensible (the UK specified 85%), however
there are no such conditions specificed in Digital Conversion
amendment to the Broadcasting Services Act.

Yes the legislation has failed and is broken. The Government will most
likely be forced to heed the results of the various reviews into
digital broadcasting and amend it before 2008.

However the legislation that the broadcasters, electronics
manufacturers and consumers are all operating under at the moment says
that analogue will be switched off in 2008. The Government has not
indicated, or enacted, anything to the contrary.

dewatf.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Richard Freeman"

For me Digital offers Inferior performance to Analogue TV. I am probably a
bit less than 30KM from the Transmitters and receive good clean Picture
quality on analogue however the STB (I am now on my Second STB the first
had a noticeable delay between Audio and Picture in addition to the other
problems) often pixelates, freezes and causes loud short squeals.

** Get a DSE $135 STB for 7 day approval trial.

If your analogue pic is really OK all the time - then so will the pic from
this STB.

I do not own a HD TV nor can I justify the cost at the moment so I do not
actually get any benefit from Digital TV unless I was prepared to spend
more money.

** A STB's pic quality looks very ordinary if the RF out is used to feed an
old TV. Your 20 year old bomb with no AV inputs is a joke.

( I know Mr Freeman and his TV. )


A STB's pic quality look even worse like if the composite output is
connected to a VCR video input so the modulator feeds an old TV - so the
STB's signal can be recorded.

I am not really sure why I bothered with the STB -except a Friend lent
them to me long term (ie they were/are free)

** Cos they are both crook STBs - some early ones were.

I am starting to get the feeling that where the 80's and 90's may have
been about getting Technology to improve performance - ie CD players etc
that the push nowadays is for Consumers to accept lower quality goods ie
Digital TV,

** First class results are there to be had - but not with a bomb TV and
dud boxes.




............ Phil

 

[mitch]

For metropolitian areas the legislation states that the simulcast
period is to run for the proscribed 8 years from the introduction of
digital. At the end of that period the analogue spectrum is to be
handed back to the Government to be sold off. That is till the end of
2008.


A guestimate in a media release of what percentage have taken up the
technology by 2008 has nothing what so ever to do with the
legislation.


A large majority would be sensible (the UK specified 85%), however
there are no such conditions specificed in Digital Conversion
amendment to the Broadcasting Services Act.

Yes the legislation has failed and is broken. The Government will most
likely be forced to heed the results of the various reviews into
digital broadcasting and amend it before 2008.

However the legislation that the broadcasters, electronics
manufacturers and consumers are all operating under at the moment says
that analogue will be switched off in 2008. The Government has not
indicated, or enacted, anything to the contrary.

dewatf.

.... and they won't act till 2007. They know that if DTV is as good as could
be with WS, HD and multichanneling that it could hurt prescription TV. So
they'll sit on their hands and let tye media power brokers in Stokes and
Packer make DTV as about as successful as their program guides.

Mitch

 

[Kevin Hendrikssen]

For metropolitian areas the legislation states that the simulcast
period is to run for the proscribed 8 years from the introduction of
digital. At the end of that period the analogue spectrum is to be
handed back to the Government to be sold off. That is till the end of
2008.

The Committee wishes to stress that the legislation does not provide for an
automatic analog `shut-down' in the year 2008.

2.47 The Television Broadcasting Services (Digital Conversion) Bill 1998
provides (in the case of commercial free-to-air stations) for a simulcast
period (sometimes referred to as a `phase-in' period) of 8 years or for such
longer period as is prescribed in relation to that area (paragraph 5 (2) (c)
of proposed Schedule 4 to the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 (BSA)).

A large majority would be sensible (the UK specified 85%), however
there are no such conditions specificed in Digital Conversion
amendment to the Broadcasting Services Act.

2.48 The decision as to whether that period should be extended beyond 8
years will be made following a statutory review. This review would include
the consumer take-up rates of digital television (whether through new sets
or set-top boxes) and other issues, such as coverage, recognising the
objective that digital coverage must fully replicate analog coverage by the
end of the simulcasting period. The Bill specifies that that review must
take place before 31 December 2005 (Subclause 57(1) of proposed Schedule 4
to the BSA). While the simulcast period cannot end before 2008, it could be
extended well beyond that date if the need for analog transmissions remains.

Yes the legislation has failed and is broken. The Government will most
likely be forced to heed the results of the various reviews into
digital broadcasting and amend it before 2008.

However the legislation that the broadcasters, electronics
manufacturers and consumers are all operating under at the moment says
that analogue will be switched off in 2008. The Government has not
indicated, or enacted, anything to the contrary.

See above.
source:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/ecita_ctte/completed_inquiries/1996-99/tv/report/c02.htm

 

[Who_tat_me]

For metropolitian areas the legislation states that the simulcast
period is to run for the proscribed 8 years from the introduction of
digital. At the end of that period the analogue spectrum is to be
handed back to the Government to be sold off. That is till the end of
2008.

That isn't what the legislation says. The legislation (Broadcasting Services
Act 1992 - Schedule 4 - Digital television broadcasting) states that the
simulcast period for broadcasts in non-remote areas is "to run for 8 years
or for such longer period as is prescribed in relation to that area".
(S6(3)(c)) For remote areas the simulcast period is to be as determined by
the ABA. (S6(7)) As was correctly stated by Kevin Hendrikssen, there is no
legislated cutoff date. Nor does there need to be as the Act makes provision
for the simulcast period to run for as long as is necessary.

 

[dmm]

Er we hate him as much as the rest of Aust. Apart from Collingwood
supporters that is.

Didn't you see the smiley, a few lines below??

 

[dmm]

It is ??????????? Could have fooled Me !


At least with analogue I have a perfect picture. Digital I have a good
Picture with bursts of pixeallation, Freezes, audio Drop outs and occasional
squaeks

squaeks, is that a new quantum particle?? ;-)

Seriously though, if you're getting pixellation, you are probably in a fringe area.
If you upgraded your antenna to a higher gain, and or upgraded the coax, you
would probably get a stable picture and audio.

 

[Clive Newall]

... and they won't act till 2007. They know that if DTV is as good as could
be with WS, HD and multichanneling that it could hurt prescription TV.

Mitch

Wow. Who is your doctor? Is it covered by PBS or do you have to pay
full price for it?

How long does the scrip cover? Do you get time off work?
("Sorry. Can't do that project now. Doctor's orders. Have to watch
a Seinfeld marathon.")



--
Clive Newall <[email protected]> / ITG Australia Ltd, Melbourne Australia
"The Internet is an important cultural phenomenon, but that doesn't excuse its
failure to comply with basic economic laws. The problem is that it was devised
by a bunch of hippie anarchists who didn't have a strong profit motive."
-- Thomas Nolle, a New Jersey telecommunications consultant. (LATimes,26Jul01)

 

[dewatf]

The Committee wishes to stress that the legislation does not provide for an
automatic analog `shut-down' in the year 2008.

No it provides for a simulacast period, currently set at 8 years for
metropolitian regions, and then outlines in details the procedures for
the handing over of tranmission licences so the spectrum can be
returned the Government to be auctioned off.

They say Tomarto and I say Tomaato.

All of the free spectrum given out, the future licencing system,
multichanneling, datacasting, and additional channels were all
designed with the forced move to digital by 2008 in mind. Exactly the
same as they constructed the telecommunication market and change to
GSM around the forced shut down of analogue AMPS network.

The Government intended to shut down analogue in 2008, they have used
that to try and push the technology, and whenever they have been
challenged they have refused to accept that the date might have to be
extended. When Alston realised that his DTV system was broken and took
a proposal to fix it to cabinet he was rolled. The review into extra
commercial licences has since been junked and the decision handed over
to the Minister so the Government can control and exploit it
politically.

2.48 The decision as to whether that period should be extended beyond 8
years will be made following a statutory review. This review would include
the consumer take-up rates of digital television (whether through new sets
or set-top boxes) and other issues, such as coverage, recognising the
objective that digital coverage must fully replicate analog coverage by the
end of the simulcasting period. The Bill specifies that that review must
take place before 31 December 2005 (Subclause 57(1) of proposed Schedule 4
to the BSA). While the simulcast period cannot end before 2008, it could be
extended well beyond that date if the need for analog transmissions remains.

Yes I know there is a review, I stated so. There is nothing that says
that there must be a majority or a high take up digital before the
analogue is switched off. The only requirment is that digital must be
available with comparable coverage and the other issues must be
"considered". They can quite easily consider them and find the level
of uptake is sufficient if that is what the Government requires.

It is not the review that is going mean anything, the review will just
reflect the politics.

And as I said the odds are they will have to extend the analogue
signal, just like they were forced to extend AMPS for a while in rural
areas, and have Telstra create a CDMA network for rural areas.

You can sure however that the process will have nothing to do with
what is in cosumers interests.

See above.
source:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/ecita_ctte/completed_inquiries/1996-99/tv/report/c02.htm

I have read it.


dewatf.

 

[mitch]

Wow. Who is your doctor? Is it covered by PBS or do you have to pay
full price for it?

How long does the scrip cover? Do you get time off work?
("Sorry. Can't do that project now. Doctor's orders. Have to watch
a Seinfeld marathon.")

Keep on watching, you're paying for it.. I'd love to know how many ppl have
withdrawn from Pay with the new decoding system and the death of the "card".

Mitch

 

[dewatf]

That isn't what the legislation says. The legislation (Broadcasting Services
Act 1992 - Schedule 4 - Digital television broadcasting) states that the
simulcast period for broadcasts in non-remote areas is "to run for 8 years
or for such longer period as is prescribed in relation to that area".
(S6(3)(c)) For remote areas the simulcast period is to be as determined by
the ABA. (S6(7)) As was correctly stated by Kevin Hendrikssen, there is no
legislated cutoff date. Nor does there need to be as the Act makes provision
for the simulcast period to run for as long as is necessary.

The Act does not make any provision for the simulcast period to run as
long as necessary. The Act only requires a simulcast period that must
be at least 8 years be prescribed for each area. And for metropolitian
areas that was set by the Government was the minimum eight years.
It is currently 8 years.

And that the period *may*, note *may*, be extended by the review.

dewatf.

 

[Who_tat_me]

The Act does not make any provision for the simulcast period to run as
long as necessary. The Act only requires a simulcast period that must
be at least 8 years be prescribed for each area. And for metropolitian
areas that was set by the Government was the minimum eight years.
It is currently 8 years.

And that the period *may*, note *may*, be extended by the review.

The two main points being:
1. The simulcast period is at least 8 years and posssibly longer
2. There is no legislated cutoff date.

 

[Mr.T]

The two main points being:
1. The simulcast period is at least 8 years and posssibly longer
2. There is no legislated cutoff date.

So in the end it will depend on who donates how much to election campaign
funds, and what they want in return.
Just like always.

MrT.

 

[dewatf]

The two main points being:
1. The simulcast period is at least 8 years and posssibly longer
2. There is no legislated cutoff date.

The main points being:

1) That the legislaton requires a simulcast period of only a minimum
of 8 years. At the end of the period there is set out a switching off
of the analogue signal so the govenment can flog of the spectrum.

2) Under the leglislation the the government gets to presribe the
length of the simulcast period for non-remote areas. [For remote areas
the ABA not the government gets to prescribe the length of period.]

3) The Government prescribed an 8 year period ending in 2008, under
the powers granted by the legislation.

4) The legislation does not take into account in any fashion consumers
preferences for analogue. There is supposed to be a review, and it
will take submissions, but there is nothing specificed as to what is
an acceptable level of uptake before the analogue signal is switched
off. Unlike in the UK where they set a target date and a minimum level
of uptake of 85% to give people some idea of the process and to
protect their rights.

5) The only thing that is definitely set out in this legislation is
that a digital signal must be available in the area covered by
analogue, there is nothing that states that a majority of consumers
must have switched before the analogue signal is switched of, as was
falsely claimed.


dewatf.

 

[Kevin Hendrikssen]

5) The only thing that is definitely set out in this legislation is
that a digital signal must be available in the area covered by
analogue, there is nothing that states that a majority of consumers
must have switched before the analogue signal is switched of, as was
falsely claimed.

If you're referring to my post:

I was suggesting that - despite the lack of legislation requiring a
majority - that it'd be highly unlikely they would force an analogue
shutdown if there hasn't been a significant majority uptake. This is purely
my opinion, of course.

 

[Who_tat_me]

The main points being:

1) That the legislaton requires a simulcast period of only a minimum
of 8 years.

That's what I just said.


At the end of the period there is set out a switching off

of the analogue signal so the govenment can flog of the spectrum.

2) Under the leglislation the the government gets to presribe the
length of the simulcast period for non-remote areas. [For remote areas
the ABA not the government gets to prescribe the length of period.]

3) The Government prescribed an 8 year period ending in 2008, under
the powers granted by the legislation.

4) The legislation does not take into account in any fashion consumers
preferences for analogue. There is supposed to be a review, and it
will take submissions, but there is nothing specificed as to what is
an acceptable level of uptake before the analogue signal is switched
off. Unlike in the UK where they set a target date and a minimum level
of uptake of 85% to give people some idea of the process and to
protect their rights.

5) The only thing that is definitely set out in this legislation is
that a digital signal must be available in the area covered by
analogue, there is nothing that states that a majority of consumers
must have switched before the analogue signal is switched of, as was
falsely claimed.

You aren't a lawyer are you? That's a lot of extra waffle that has nothing
to do with what I said.

 

[Who_tat_me]

I was suggesting that - despite the lack of legislation requiring a
majority - that it'd be highly unlikely they would force an analogue
shutdown if there hasn't been a significant majority uptake. This is
purely my opinion, of course.

It's also a valid suggestion. A federal election is due in late 2007 and if
people haven't taken up digital by then the government won't be forcing a
shutoff of analogue in non-remote areas if they want to be re-elected.
Analogue TV is not like the analogue mobile phone network. When that was
shut off it wasn't anywhere near as embedded into our lifestyle as TV is. If
they shut off analogue TV and overnight people have nothing to watch, there
will be riots. The government is more likely to extend the simulcast period
than chop it off at the 8 year point. The Act clearly states that the
simulcast period is "to run for 8 years or for such longer period as is
prescribed" so the intention to extend the simulcast period for longer if
necessary seems to have been in the minds of those who framed the
legislation.

Many remote areas still don't have digital TV and won't for at least 12
months. Supply of STBs for those areas is bound to be a problem. Most will
be taken by the cities and won't get to the remote areas so there will still
need to be a reasonable phase-in period for those people. In practice, I
wouldn't be surprised at all if the simulcast period is extended for at
least 2 or 3 years.