OT: Paid my DTV tax ...

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

Yeah, I went and plunked down fifty bucks for my DTV box, and I
have to admit, I have mixed emotions. All of the TV channels seem
to come in OK, and there _are_ more channels than straight analog
TV; just a few minutes ago I was watching Martha Stewart teach
Julia Child how to decorate a wedding cake with marzipan.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised by the channel coverage, and when
it loses a signal (like when a plane flies over - I'm right under
the approach path to LAX), it goes to freeze frame instead of
snow.

But Fifty Bucks! Crap! And they wouldn't send me a coupon because,
being a mobile consultant, I don't have a permanent address - I just
use the mailing address of whichever clint I'm contracted to. But
that's in an industrial area, so I'm disqualified. )-;

But, well, death and taxes.

I wonder what's going to happen to the country when unemployment
gets so bad that there's nobody left to pay the taxes?

Or when China forecloses?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Jon Kirwan]

Yeah, I went and plunked down fifty bucks for my DTV box, and I
have to admit, I have mixed emotions. All of the TV channels seem
to come in OK, and there _are_ more channels than straight analog
TV; just a few minutes ago I was watching Martha Stewart teach
Julia Child how to decorate a wedding cake with marzipan.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised by the channel coverage, and when
it loses a signal (like when a plane flies over - I'm right under
the approach path to LAX), it goes to freeze frame instead of
snow.

But Fifty Bucks! Crap! And they wouldn't send me a coupon because,
being a mobile consultant, I don't have a permanent address - I just
use the mailing address of whichever clint I'm contracted to. But
that's in an industrial area, so I'm disqualified. )-;

I had no idea. We had a nice plastic card sent and were allowed two
boxes using it. It's only $40 each and I couldn't find any at exactly
that price, locally. So I had to pony up the rest, plus the cost of
an antenna. But it helped.

I believe Congress has re-extended the program and people who missed
the earlier cutoff can re-apply for a short while, yet. However, you
are saying something new to me -- that they have red-lined districts
where they won't accept a mailing address. Don't you know a friend or
acquaintance whose address you can "borrow?" Too late, I suppose.

But, well, death and taxes.
Yeah.

I wonder what's going to happen to the country when unemployment
gets so bad that there's nobody left to pay the taxes?

I just had an interesting discussion with my brother, who is living in
the LA area. Seems like CA is in big trouble, budget-wise. I just
said, "Well, let loose all those in jail for marijuana offenses not
involving violence." Or else, "Raise taxes on those with jobs, still.
As unemployment rises, keep raising taxes even more on those who
remain at work." He laughed, said: "Yeah. People will eventually see
they'd do better just quiting and getting in line. Then 100%
unemployment." It's a possibility, I suppose.

He wants to start by cutting funding spent on non-US-citizens in CA
and giving straight-up pardons to anyone costing a lot, medically, in
CA prisons. (I think he was thinking about people with AIDS, with
seriously expensive issues.) Kind of like, "You are costing us $10k
per day in expensive medicine. You get a free pass. Bye."

Actually, he didn't know what to do. Sounds like a lot of problems.

Here in Oregon, the governor ordered a prioritized list of cuts from
every department, to a 30% cutoff figure. I've looked over the list
from a couple of departments and it really looks as though they are
prioritizing their own jobs as first on the list to cut -- before
cutting services here. So I suppose that shows reasonable choices in
setting priorities.

Or when China forecloses?

Well, there is that. When they do, I suppose the dollar will fall to
the point where other folks are willing to buy it up. Market forces,
and all.

Jon

 

[Jon Kirwan]

http://www.geocities.com/three_strikes_legal/prison_costs.html

Another report I just saw, yesterday, put the figure at $35k/yr. That
one puts it at $31k/yr. My brother told me he'd heard $40k/yr. So
I'm guessing the error bars here aren't too bad. Call it $35k/yr.

A lot of Californians who commit various traffic violations leave and
come up here to Oregon. One I spoke with told me he'd come up because
he had some 'hundred or so' traffic tickets and figured it would be
better to just move. I don't know much about incarceration here in
Oregon except that it costs us billions more in Oregon to pay for
prison than it does for the entire education budget. So if looking
for cuts, I'd look to release non-violent folks with an eye to
prioritizing those who are more likely to accept some guidance and
training and at least have a modest chance at success.

I wonder how many are there, what will they do when they leave ?

No idea. For those smoking marijuana, I suppose they may go back to
smoking it. So? I don't really care. I'd legalize it, anyway, and
be done with the associated corruption of police and legal system,
violence, and so on. It's not worth the costs, by a long shot.

In fact, maybe CA could just legitimize the crops and tax and sell
them. Might pay the bills, even.

I'm way past "done" as far as keeping it illegal. The price is way,
way too high.

Jon

 

[Jon Kirwan]

Since Rich bought it already it's too late I guess.



Or when the Laffer curve hits. In CA it already does.



Keep in mind that legal non-citizens pay the same taxes and shall have
the same rights.

I think he was speaking of the illegal variety. I don't know how
things work in CA, so I just listened. But he seemed to suggest, as I
read him, that there are services which are available to folks here
without going through the various processes. I wouldn't know.

As for sick inmates, they'll just show back up as
another budget line items, standing in line at the local ER and getting
"free" treatment.

Does that come just as completely from the State budgets? Or do the
hospitals have to "foot" some of that? And are some of the services
in any way of different quality?

Unless they land a job with benefits, chances of which
as slim.

[...]

So what's the plan for CA? I see the plans forming here in Oregon.
Not good, but at least I can see serious engagement with the details
and movement that will cope with a variety of possible outcomes. (Of
course, our entire budget probably fits into CA pocket change.)

Jon

 

[Jon Kirwan]

<snip>
"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P

Oh, my! This Island Earth. I need to go rent that one and refresh my
memories! And I loved the early days of MST3K.

Jon

 

[qrk]

Another report I just saw, yesterday, put the figure at $35k/yr. That
one puts it at $31k/yr. My brother told me he'd heard $40k/yr. So
I'm guessing the error bars here aren't too bad. Call it $35k/yr.

A lot of Californians who commit various traffic violations leave and
come up here to Oregon. One I spoke with told me he'd come up because
he had some 'hundred or so' traffic tickets and figured it would be
better to just move. I don't know much about incarceration here in
Oregon except that it costs us billions more in Oregon to pay for
prison than it does for the entire education budget. So if looking
for cuts, I'd look to release non-violent folks with an eye to
prioritizing those who are more likely to accept some guidance and
training and at least have a modest chance at success.


No idea. For those smoking marijuana, I suppose they may go back to
smoking it. So? I don't really care. I'd legalize it, anyway, and
be done with the associated corruption of police and legal system,
violence, and so on. It's not worth the costs, by a long shot.

In fact, maybe CA could just legitimize the crops and tax and sell
them. Might pay the bills, even.

I'm way past "done" as far as keeping it illegal. The price is way,
way too high.

Jon

There's also a large illegal immigrant prison population. Cost cutting
measure is to ship them back to whence they come.

 

[Charles]

Or when China forecloses?

Actually, they will continue to assist us overextend ourselves and they will
eventually reclaim Taiwan (when we can no longer respond). And then, it
will be the rest of the Pacific Rim and then ....

 

[Jon Kirwan]

Actually, they will continue to assist us overextend ourselves and they will
eventually reclaim Taiwan (when we can no longer respond). And then, it
will be the rest of the Pacific Rim and then ....

Ah, yes. China never forgets her wayward daughter, the 35th province.
About the rest, I don't know. But yes, Taiwan is, to China, merely
temporarily detached. As a country, China has millennia of history
and much patience.

Jon

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

http://www.geocities.com/three_strikes_legal/prison_costs.html

I wonder how many are there, what will they do when they leave ?

Take the lawn mowing jobs back from the wetbacks? >:->

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Charlie E.]

Yeah, I went and plunked down fifty bucks for my DTV box, and I
have to admit, I have mixed emotions. All of the TV channels seem
to come in OK, and there _are_ more channels than straight analog
TV; just a few minutes ago I was watching Martha Stewart teach
Julia Child how to decorate a wedding cake with marzipan.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised by the channel coverage, and when
it loses a signal (like when a plane flies over - I'm right under
the approach path to LAX), it goes to freeze frame instead of
snow.

Did the re-tune on one converter box yesterday night, on the TV and one
converter box this morning. Some strange things happened:

Yesterday I picked up a (very nice) financial TV station, stock exchange
info and all that. Sounded almost like Bloomberg-TV but since we are in
the west I guess that can't be. Says channel 9, whatever that means
these days. It did cut out twice but only for a few seconds. The TV and
2nd converter box of same type did not find that station this morning,
same antenna, professional home run system with buffer amps and the
whole nine yards.

Now for the real strange thing: TV said it picked up two analog (!)
stations. Ch3 and Ch6 were still blazing but with still images and audio
telling people how to transit to DTV. And I thought they had to be
switched off. When going through the channels with the up/down buttons I
found the TV had caught five analog signals, two with great classic
movies running at 7:30am. Amazing. Maybe leakage from cable TV? However,
the images are very snowy so won't be useful.

What I hate is that these "modern" tuners don't let you look by hand. In
the good old days you could tune TVs by hand and decide on your own
which stations came in good enough to warrant a spot in the presets. Now
all that has been dumbed down :-(

[...]

Well, I got my converter box a couple of weeks ago, and an
indoor/outdoor amplified antenna. I had planned on mounting the
antenna out by the wallbox where the cable used to come in, but there
is no power convenient out there since the power supply is indoor
only! So, I set it up here in the office up on a shelf.

I have a little color TV here in the office, and used it as a quick
test to find I get about five stations out of the converter box,
including the local CW station which isn't on the satellite!

I then split it, and put it into the home wiring. Very poor results.
The box in here became very noisy, and didn't get much on my HDTV
(after waiting a hour for its autoprogram sequence...)

Waited till this morning, and took out the splitter here in the
office, since I don't need to watch TV in here anyway, and replaced
the four way splitter in the box outside with a two way splitter to
the bedroom and the living room. Put the converter box in the bedroom
on the old analog TV. It is up and running, and I now even have a
local weather channel on a subchannel for the local ABC affiliate!

Still waiting on the HDTV, to see what it will be able to pick up.
That hour wait is the pits...

Charlie

 

[Jim Thompson]

Yeah, I went and plunked down fifty bucks for my DTV box, and I
have to admit, I have mixed emotions. All of the TV channels seem
to come in OK, and there _are_ more channels than straight analog
TV; just a few minutes ago I was watching Martha Stewart teach
Julia Child how to decorate a wedding cake with marzipan.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised by the channel coverage, and when
it loses a signal (like when a plane flies over - I'm right under
the approach path to LAX), it goes to freeze frame instead of
snow.

Did the re-tune on one converter box yesterday night, on the TV and one
converter box this morning. Some strange things happened:

Yesterday I picked up a (very nice) financial TV station, stock exchange
info and all that. Sounded almost like Bloomberg-TV but since we are in
the west I guess that can't be. Says channel 9, whatever that means
these days. It did cut out twice but only for a few seconds. The TV and
2nd converter box of same type did not find that station this morning,
same antenna, professional home run system with buffer amps and the
whole nine yards.

Now for the real strange thing: TV said it picked up two analog (!)
stations. Ch3 and Ch6 were still blazing but with still images and audio
telling people how to transit to DTV. And I thought they had to be
switched off. When going through the channels with the up/down buttons I
found the TV had caught five analog signals, two with great classic
movies running at 7:30am. Amazing. Maybe leakage from cable TV? However,
the images are very snowy so won't be useful.

What I hate is that these "modern" tuners don't let you look by hand. In
the good old days you could tune TVs by hand and decide on your own
which stations came in good enough to warrant a spot in the presets. Now
all that has been dumbed down :-(

[...]

Well, I got my converter box a couple of weeks ago, and an
indoor/outdoor amplified antenna. I had planned on mounting the
antenna out by the wallbox where the cable used to come in, but there
is no power convenient out there since the power supply is indoor
only! So, I set it up here in the office up on a shelf.

I have a little color TV here in the office, and used it as a quick
test to find I get about five stations out of the converter box,
including the local CW station which isn't on the satellite!

I then split it, and put it into the home wiring. Very poor results.
The box in here became very noisy, and didn't get much on my HDTV
(after waiting a hour for its autoprogram sequence...)

Waited till this morning, and took out the splitter here in the
office, since I don't need to watch TV in here anyway, and replaced
the four way splitter in the box outside with a two way splitter to
the bedroom and the living room. Put the converter box in the bedroom
on the old analog TV. It is up and running, and I now even have a
local weather channel on a subchannel for the local ABC affiliate!

Still waiting on the HDTV, to see what it will be able to pick up.
That hour wait is the pits...

Charlie

I noticed a reverse benefit this morning. In spite of the house being
wired with RG6/S (tri-shield), over-the-air channels 3 and 5 would
sometimes produce video beat notes against the cable feed (I'm only 2
ridges south of the towers). Always seemed to be leakage at the
F-connector to the set... jiggle and the problem would temporarily
stop.

This morning, crystal clear!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Leftist weenies think that Letterman is hilarious with a degrading
"joke" about Palin's teenaged daughters. Wonder how funny they'd
find it if Letterman said something like, "Michelle Obama has a
big butt and a face to match" ???

I think that's a VERY funny "joke" ;-)

 

[Rich Webb]

What I hate is that these "modern" tuners don't let you look by hand. In
the good old days you could tune TVs by hand and decide on your own
which stations came in good enough to warrant a spot in the presets. Now
all that has been dumbed down :-(

Some of them, e.g., BestBuy's Insignia brand NS-DXA1-APT (and,
presumably, the Zenith DTT901 that it resembles under the hood), have a
menu option to step through all of the digital channels while displaying
the "effective" channel number, signal strength, and picture (if any).
Gives one the opportunity to fiddle with the antenna, just like the old
days ;-), to try to bring it in.

But yeah, a lot of them are just auto-scan only. I've got an APEX DT250
that works that way; quite annoying.

 

[Jim Yanik]

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
Yeah, I went and plunked down fifty bucks for my DTV box, and I
have to admit, I have mixed emotions. All of the TV channels seem
to come in OK, and there _are_ more channels than straight analog
TV; just a few minutes ago I was watching Martha Stewart teach
Julia Child how to decorate a wedding cake with marzipan.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised by the channel coverage, and when
it loses a signal (like when a plane flies over - I'm right under
the approach path to LAX), it goes to freeze frame instead of
snow.


Did the re-tune on one converter box yesterday night, on the TV and
one converter box this morning. Some strange things happened:

Yesterday I picked up a (very nice) financial TV station, stock
exchange info and all that. Sounded almost like Bloomberg-TV but
since we are in the west I guess that can't be. Says channel 9,
whatever that means these days. It did cut out twice but only for a
few seconds. The TV and 2nd converter box of same type did not find
that station this morning, same antenna, professional home run system
with buffer amps and the whole nine yards.

Now for the real strange thing: TV said it picked up two analog (!)
stations. Ch3 and Ch6 were still blazing but with still images and
audio telling people how to transit to DTV. And I thought they had to
be switched off. When going through the channels with the up/down
buttons I found the TV had caught five analog signals, two with great
classic movies running at 7:30am. Amazing. Maybe leakage from cable
TV? However, the images are very snowy so won't be useful.

What I hate is that these "modern" tuners don't let you look by hand.
In the good old days you could tune TVs by hand and decide on your
own which stations came in good enough to warrant a spot in the
presets. Now all that has been dumbed down :-(

[...]

Well, I got my converter box a couple of weeks ago, and an
indoor/outdoor amplified antenna. I had planned on mounting the
antenna out by the wallbox where the cable used to come in, but there
is no power convenient out there since the power supply is indoor
only! So, I set it up here in the office up on a shelf.

I made a quad bowtie UHF antenna from plans I DL'd from Make TV.
Uses coathangers,a 3x20x1 pine board,10 screws and washers,and a balun.
It was easy and had great reception;3x better than my old UHF loop.
I don't even have to adjust it's orientation for different channels.
I receive many more stations than I could in analog xmission.
Lots of subchannels.

I noticed a reverse benefit this morning. In spite of the house being
wired with RG6/S (tri-shield), over-the-air channels 3 and 5 would
sometimes produce video beat notes against the cable feed (I'm only 2
ridges south of the towers). Always seemed to be leakage at the
F-connector to the set... jiggle and the problem would temporarily
stop.

This morning, crystal clear!

...Jim Thompson

improperly tightened F-connectors is probably the Number One cause of most
cable problems.Or improperly installed F-connectors.
Read it in a cable industry magazine years ago.

 

[ehsjr]

Some of them, e.g., BestBuy's Insignia brand NS-DXA1-APT (and,
presumably, the Zenith DTT901 that it resembles under the hood), have a
menu option to step through all of the digital channels while displaying
the "effective" channel number, signal strength, and picture (if any).
Gives one the opportunity to fiddle with the antenna, just like the old
days ;-), to try to bring it in.

But yeah, a lot of them are just auto-scan only. I've got an APEX DT250
that works that way; quite annoying.

The Apex boxes I got from Best Buy were defective. Both "worked",
sort of, but on both boxes, two strong local stations (CH 2 & 7)
gave intermittent complete loss of signal. Channel 7 almost never
came in at all. Also, the Apex must think that all signals are HD
because it puts the picture in a window instead of filling the screen.
Changing the aspect ratio did not make them perform properly -
everything shows up less than full screen. I hope Best Buy will
give me my money back, versus a store credit or worse.

I tried a Radio Shack converter - bingo. Worked flawlessly, and the
signal strength on all channels was great. All channels are solid.
Then for jollies, tried it on a TV with rabbit ears. Perfect picture
on all channels - and that TV always got a snowy picture.

The Radio Shack remote control can be programmed for TV on/off and
TV's audio amp volume setting, in addition to controlling the DTV box.

Ed

 

[Rich Webb]

Also, the Apex must think that all signals are HD
because it puts the picture in a window instead of filling the screen.
Changing the aspect ratio did not make them perform properly -
everything shows up less than full screen.

Had a similar problem with it, at the start. If yours is similar, check
that the Menu | TV Aspect Ratio is set to 4:3 and not to Auto. Set to
Auto it seems to assume that the destination display will handle any
needed conversion. Set to 4:3 it "zooms" as expected.

 

[ehsjr]

Had a similar problem with it, at the start. If yours is similar, check
that the Menu | TV Aspect Ratio is set to 4:3 and not to Auto. Set to
Auto it seems to assume that the destination display will handle any
needed conversion. Set to 4:3 it "zooms" as expected.

Thanks, Rich. Tried that, but no luck. Doesn't matter
though - the Apex boxes are going back. The Rat Shack
boxes work well for me.

Ed

 

[T]

Happened again. Watching a really great Clint Eastwood western yesterday
night. About 1-1/2 hours into it the audio began to cut out, the picture
pixelated, froze ... blue screen. #^&*%!!

I want analog TV back, good old NTSC. Because that actually worked.

Well your HD set will work just fine if you hook it up to cable
television services. Oh wait even that sucks. My friend has his cable
box hooked to his Sony HD set via HDMI. When commercial fades happen the
HDMI signal drops out and then comes up a half second or so AFTER the
signal has restored.

Very annoying.

 

[Joerg]

Well your HD set will work just fine if you hook it up to cable
television services. Oh wait even that sucks. My friend has his cable
box hooked to his Sony HD set via HDMI. When commercial fades happen the
HDMI signal drops out and then comes up a half second or so AFTER the
signal has restored.

Very annoying.

I am not falling for that. Neither cable nor satellite. Fact is that DTV
is not better than NTSC, it is much less reliable.

 

[krw]

Happened again. Watching a really great Clint Eastwood western yesterday
night. About 1-1/2 hours into it the audio began to cut out, the picture
pixelated, froze ... blue screen. #^&*%!!

Dish TV is always doing that. What a POS! ...and I thought cable
companies were crap.

I want analog TV back, good old NTSC. Because that actually worked.

Tell Obama. He cares about you.

 

[Nobody]

Fact is that DTV is not better than NTSC, it is much less reliable.

Of course it is; it uses a lot less bandwidth (see Shannon's theorem). If
you used all of the difference in bandwidth for error correction, you'd
get both quality and reliability, but the powers that be have decided to
use it for extra channels and/or HDTV instead.