Re: Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater

  • Thread starter Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
  • Start date
D

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Jan 1, 1970
0
shut off the gas a long time before ...
you can use up most of the hot water in the tank

Hi trader,

I learned this one in spades!

We had used up some of the hot water (Bill took a really really long shower
with the gas turned off) before the fiasco of the snapped valve:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/

We had warm, not hot, water all over the garage as the tank shot it out two
feet. Luckily I was around as the tank had just been righted after tipping
over as we tried to get it off the stand, full of water. It was horrid.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262531/

The only good thing was you had already admonished us to have tepid water
in the tank and that's what saved us from getting scalded as Bill stuck his
finger in the hole (it was just the right size) to stop the leak and I
bucketed the water outside.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

We would have been burned had we not taken that good advice from this
newsgroup! Others should heed the warning too.

Thanks,
Donna
 
D

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Jan 1, 1970
0
the plastic valves are fine if they get just ONE use, to drain the
tank at end of use.......

Hi hallerb,
I understand your point. But, from what I read, they used to be brass and
the manufacturers switched to the plastic for cost reasons only.

Also, I read a brass ball valve doesn't clog as easily.

Given our experience this past weekend, where the valve first clogged and
then broke off inside the water heater, it would seem to us that over time,
the brass will be less likely to break than the plastic.

Of course, one reason ours clogged was likely the fact we never flushed it
so the sediments may have been too much for any valve - and one reason it
broke is that we were manhandling it trying to get the tipped-over water
heater back on the stand ... so you might be right.

I think I now understand how to replace the brass valve. In fact, a more
important issue came up in that our dishwasher suddenly stopped working. I
think it's due to the sediment being sent through the pipes (our shower
heads were totally clogged all of a sudden, with sandy grainy stuff).

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).

I feel like "this old house" is attacking me so it's nice to have this
wonderful newsgroup as my friends to help in times of need!

Donna
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).


The dishwasher is bricked in? Sheesh, how did they even manage that?

Fortunately most things can be accessed by removing the kick plate. The
water inlet is a solenoid valve normally in the left-front corner of the
machine. It will attach with a compression fitting which you can disconnect
and then you should be able to remove the valve and clean it out. I suspect
your clog is right there.
 
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the bricks
bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!
 
Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the bricks
bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain valves
etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping it
off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and clean
up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food in
fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose floorboard,
ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to adjust
carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into fan went
thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list:)

my memorable event:(

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open to
flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call water
company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street had been
raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as i
walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker back
on, all power in building went out, fact all power from detroit to new
york. that big power failure from some years ago........... wasnt his
fault but just imagine:)

now that was funny!!!!!
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.


Oh it happens to the best of us, it's why contractors are bonded. I once
went to replace the distributor on a car, somehow managed to drop a socket
down into the timing belt cover while trying to locate TDC, and then broke
the timing belt in the process of getting that out. Thankfully it turned out
to be a non-interference engine so no major damage was done. On top of all
that, the car happened to belong to my boss, and I was working on it in the
back parking lot at work. A 20 minute job turned into 3 days of early
mornings and late evenings since so much had to come apart to fix the stupid
thing. In the end though no real harm was done and it was a learning
experience to say the least. Some would give up after that, but being a true
DIYer I climbed back in the saddle and haven't made that same mistake again.
For every time I break something and make a job 10x what it should have
been, I save a fortune on a dozen other projects by doing them myself and I
can provide advice to others to prevent them from doing what I did.

When I was a kid I watched my dad hit a water pipe with a Sawzall while
putting in a light fixture, oops! Always take great care to cut a small hole
first so you can see whats in there.
 
J

jakdedert

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
Oh it happens to the best of us, it's why contractors are bonded. I once
went to replace the distributor on a car, somehow managed to drop a socket
down into the timing belt cover while trying to locate TDC, and then broke
the timing belt in the process of getting that out. Thankfully it turned out
to be a non-interference engine so no major damage was done. On top of all
that, the car happened to belong to my boss, and I was working on it in the
back parking lot at work. A 20 minute job turned into 3 days of early
mornings and late evenings since so much had to come apart to fix the stupid
thing. In the end though no real harm was done and it was a learning
experience to say the least. Some would give up after that, but being a true
DIYer I climbed back in the saddle and haven't made that same mistake again.
For every time I break something and make a job 10x what it should have
been, I save a fortune on a dozen other projects by doing them myself and I
can provide advice to others to prevent them from doing what I did.

When I was a kid I watched my dad hit a water pipe with a Sawzall while
putting in a light fixture, oops! Always take great care to cut a small hole
first so you can see whats in there.
This could turn into a whole new thread of major f*ckups that we learned
from....

(One of) mine was when replacing the clutch on the family car--along
with my older brother--when we were 14 and 17 respectively. I put the
first bolt in the pressure plate, 'bumped' the starter in order to pull
the engine around to access the rest...

....and forgot to pull the coil wire. BAM! Engine fired up (briefly)
and trashed the new pressure plate. Luckily no other damage or injury
resulted.

jak
 
R

Rod Speed

Jan 1, 1970
0
donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain valves
etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping it
off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and clean
up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food in
fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose floorboard,
ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to adjust
carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into fan went
thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list:)

my memorable event:(

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open to
flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call water
company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street had been
raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as i
walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker back
on, all power in building went out, fact all power from detroit to new
york. that big power failure from some years ago........... wasnt his
fault but just imagine:)

now that was funny!!!!!

Never had even a single one of those, and I physically built the entire house.
 
N

N8N

Jan 1, 1970
0
all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

Ain't that the truth.

I still err on the side of too much PM because I seem to be one of
those guys who manage to pull off just about every job I actually *do*
without too much hassle, but God forbid that I let any PM slide on
anything, it will bite me in the a$$... There are a few exceptions to
that rule however.

the funniest was, though, my ex-GF had a '69 Plymouth Valiant that I'd
found for her, because her old Monte Carlo was too much of a rusty
roach to pass PA state safety inspection without a new frame. It was
in immaculate shape, and ran and drove well. she took it to a local
garage to get it inspected and the guy failed her for dry-rotted
suspension bushings. So I called up PST, ordered a front end rebuild
kit, and went to town. I figured that it would be pretty easy, and
after all I was a mechanical engineering student so had access to the
school machine shop, what could possibly go wrong? I drove the
control arms down to another shop to have them bead blasted, painted
everything up real nice, went to put the first side back together and
I realize that the strut rod bushings are WAY too thick. Called up
PST, after being on the phone with tech support for quite some while,
figured out that they had the year breaks in their catalog wrong and I
needed the earlier version. Well their bastard people wouldn't trade
me for the ones I needed, wouldn't sell them separately, etc. etc.
etc. Also found out that one tie rod was swapped end for end so I
needed to order a new inner tie rod end as well (basic rebuild kit
only had outer tie rods, and the inspector had flagged outer tie rod
ends for replacement as well.) Car was on jackstands on the street in
front of her house for about 3 weeks while this was all going on (this
was supposed to be about a 3-day project, I had it all planned out...)
finally her annoying neighbor called the city to schedule tree
trimming, I had to throw the car together one evening wrong bushings
and all just to move it so it didn't get towed. By this time I'd
found a guy with a machine shop in his basement to turn down the strut
rod bushings for me to the thickness actually required, but I didn't
have time to R&R the lower control arm on one side.

Somewhere out there there is still a pea soup green '69 Valiant with a
nice polygraphite front end that has one original rubber lower control
arm bushing and one original rubber strut rod bushing... what a
charlie foxtrot.

You would think that I'd learned my lesson but a couple months later
my '67 Dart blew up its transmission on my way to her house, and I
coasted it into the exact same parking place where the Valiant had
been sitting. I borrowed the Valiant, went to the junkyard, got
another transmission, swapped that in at the side of the road in the
snow, and the car moved about 6 feet and never moved again. I sold it
for $50 just to get it the hell out of my sight.

Lesson learned; I don't do any work on cars outside of a garage or
driveway anymore... no job, no matter how simple appearing, is not
going to take about 10x as long as you think it is and if you're in a
hurry you're going to make mistakes.

nate

(you may all laugh at me now)
 
O

Only Just

Jan 1, 1970
0
Donna Ohl said:
Hi hallerb,
I understand your point. But, from what I read, they used to be brass and
the manufacturers switched to the plastic for cost reasons only.

Also, I read a brass ball valve doesn't clog as easily.

Given our experience this past weekend, where the valve first clogged and
then broke off inside the water heater, it would seem to us that over
time,
the brass will be less likely to break than the plastic.

Of course, one reason ours clogged was likely the fact we never flushed it
so the sediments may have been too much for any valve - and one reason it
broke is that we were manhandling it trying to get the tipped-over water
heater back on the stand ... so you might be right.

I think I now understand how to replace the brass valve. In fact, a more
important issue came up in that our dishwasher suddenly stopped working. I
think it's due to the sediment being sent through the pipes (our shower
heads were totally clogged all of a sudden, with sandy grainy stuff).

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).

I feel like "this old house" is attacking me so it's nice to have this
wonderful newsgroup as my friends to help in times of need!

Donna
Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting to
the tap that controls the water to the appliance, with a bit of luck it
should be as easy as to removing the hose from the tap and cleaning that
filter / screen. There could be an additional screen fitted to the water
inlet valve on the appliance as well that might need cleaning so depending
on the difficulty on accessing the fittings, start with the easy one first
and test from there before attempting the more difficult one. If you have
cleaned out all the filters and it still doesn't work you could have had the
unfortunate problem of luck that it also failed at close to the same time
(It happens occasionally unfortunately) so good luck with it all.
Justy.
 
message











Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting to
the tap that controls the water to the appliance, with a bit of luck it
should be as easy as to removing the hose from the tap and cleaning that
filter / screen. There could be an additional screen fitted to the water
inlet valve on the appliance as well that might need cleaning so depending
on the difficulty on accessing the fittings, start with the easy one first
and test from there before attempting the more difficult one. If you have
cleaned out all the filters and it still doesn't work you could have had the
unfortunate problem of luck that it also failed at close to the same time
(It happens occasionally unfortunately) so good luck with it all.
Justy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just installed a couple dishwashers, one for us and one for a
friend, and one for a friend, no screen washers,,,,,,,,,
 
Never had even a single one of those, and I physically built the entire house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

new work is safer, you know whats there.

old work is a pain cause you cant know where stuff is, like hidden
water phone and electric lines
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just installed a couple dishwashers, one for us and one for a
friend, and one for a friend, no screen washers,,,,,,,,,


They usually have one in the water inlet solenoid itself. Thankfully the
intake plumbing on a dishwasher is really simple. Copper tubing to a
compression fitting at the solenoid valve, and a hose out of that through a
nozzle into the washer compartment. The recirculation plumbing that does the
washing is separate and very hard to clog.
 
R

Rod Speed

Jan 1, 1970
0
new work is safer, you know whats there.

old work is a pain cause you cant know where stuff is, like hidden
water phone and electric lines

I've never had anything like that with previous houses
either, and its easy enough to check for that stuff.
 
B

Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Donna said:
The only good thing was you had already admonished us to have tepid water
in the tank and that's what saved us from getting scalded as Bill stuck his
finger in the hole (it was just the right size) to stop the leak and I
bucketed the water outside.

Another trick to totally avoid the plastic drain valve is to have a 3/4"
pipe fitting ready that can attach to a hose, then unscrew and remove
the gas valve and thermostat assembly and slide the pipe and hose in its
place.
 
D

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Jan 1, 1970
0
The dishwasher is bricked in? Sheesh, how did they even manage that?
Fortunately most things can be accessed by removing the kick plate.

Hi James,
I'm going to try to remove that kick plate later this week.
I unclogged the shower yesterday; it was filled with sand grains:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233720/

I unclogged the kitchen sink with a scissors today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233724/

Notice the sand grains on my cutting board.
They were all over the place!

This new sand does not look like the "scale" that was in the galvanized
pipes!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250265/

Where did all this sand come from?

Donna
 
D

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting

I looked underneath today. There is a hose going to the garbage disposal
and another hose going to the faucet. There is a wire going to an
electrical outlet. I'll look more later this week as I had to visit my
grandchildren tonight and didn't get back home till late.

Here is what the dishwasher looks like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233722/

When I take the kick plate off, I'll snap a picture and show you what that
"solonoid" looks like.

Donna
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
I looked underneath today. There is a hose going to the garbage disposal
and another hose going to the faucet. There is a wire going to an
electrical outlet. I'll look more later this week as I had to visit my
grandchildren tonight and didn't get back home till late.

Here is what the dishwasher looks like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233722/

When I take the kick plate off, I'll snap a picture and show you what that
"solonoid" looks like.

Donna


Hey that looks identical to the one I just yanked out of my place, the motor
died and the rest was in pretty sad shape, but the new one is very similar
and works great. At any rate I'm familiar with the innards. When you remove
the kick plate, you'll find adjustable screw feet and you should be able to
lower it down enough to get it to fit under the counter lip. The solenoid
valve will be right up front on the left side, mine is blue.
 
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