safe electronic brain stimulator

[Andrew VK3BFA]

To safely stimulate my brain, I watch TV.

Reading a book is a time tested and reliable method.
de VK3BFA Andrew

(Gee, there are some REALLY SILLY things in this group!)

 

[Don Taylor]

So what happens if you put Guns 'n' Roses on your stereo at full
blast? Does that drown out the tinitus or is it still there? Just
curious...

It is possible for the background noise to be loud enough that you
can't hear it over the noise unless you try. But when the background
level drops back to normal the the whistle is still there, or maybe
a little louder and more obnoxious for a while.

But there have been published papers where they almost literally
stun someone with a noise blast and the person will report a, usually
short, period of reduced tinnitus, seconds or perhaps a minute or
two typically.

 

[phil]

I am asking these questions for the exact reason you believe it do be
'silly', becuase its dangerous, I am not going to try to build this
circuit, but i am interested in it and it's effects.

I might try something along the lines of magnetic or electromagnetic
waves as these are much less dangerous and these type of things are
actually used for brainwave entrainment(which is what I was interested
in using this for in the first place)

 

[SioL]

I am asking these questions for the exact reason you believe it do be
'silly', becuase its dangerous, I am not going to try to build this
circuit, but i am interested in it and it's effects.

I might try something along the lines of magnetic or electromagnetic
waves as these are much less dangerous and these type of things are
actually used for brainwave entrainment(which is what I was interested
in using this for in the first place)

How about reading a good book instead, that's real brainwave entertainment.

SioL

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

How about reading a good book instead, that's real brainwave entertainment.

Or just doing some acid?

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[Dana Raymond]

Reading a book is a time tested and reliable method.
de VK3BFA Andrew

(Gee, there are some REALLY SILLY things in this group!)

My original post about safely stimulating my brain really had more to do
with the ridiculousness of actually trying to interfere with my brain
function. Even if I thought complete due diligence was exercised with a
project like this, I would still run away, as fast as I could, from the
experimenters if they came at me with the thing! LOL

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

My original post about safely stimulating my brain really had more to do
with the ridiculousness of actually trying to interfere with my brain
function. Even if I thought complete due diligence was exercised with a
project like this, I would still run away, as fast as I could, from the
experimenters if they came at me with the thing! LOL

Spoken by a true pioneer!

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[YD]

So what happens if you put Guns 'n' Roses on your stereo at full
blast? Does that drown out the tinitus or is it still there? Just
curious...

I'd rather have tinnitus than hear _anything_ by G'n'R.

- YD.

 

[Dave VanHorn]

nope, still the same high pitched constant screaming noisy whistle...
It's always there, but you may not notice it with louder sounds around.
But, quiet is something you'll never have again.

 

[colin]

It's always there, but you may not notice it with louder sounds around.
But, quiet is something you'll never have again.

i saw a program where they worked on the theory that in tinitus the brain is
atempting to fill in for hearing loss by predicting what sounds should be
being heard. By playing a similar sound to the patient the brain no longer
tried to do this and was suposed to be quite efective.

Colin =^.^=

 

[Dave VanHorn]

i saw a program where they worked on the theory that in tinitus the brain

is
atempting to fill in for hearing loss by predicting what sounds should be
being heard. By playing a similar sound to the patient the brain no longer
tried to do this and was suposed to be quite efective.

Colin =^.^=

I'd be interested to know more about that.

 

[Don Taylor]

i saw a program where they worked on the theory that in tinitus the brain is
atempting to fill in for hearing loss by predicting what sounds should be
being heard. By playing a similar sound to the patient the brain no longer
tried to do this and was suposed to be quite efective.

If you have a reference that might be interesting.

One of the things that works for some are the "maskers" which pretty much
blow white noise at you. Some people find this extremely annoying and it
seems to take almost everyone some time to get to the point where they can
put up with this. But some who do find that the tinnitus is less annoying
with the masker on. This is likely similar to what some report, that the
background white noise can make the tinnitus less obvious and annoying.

My guess at what is behind tinnitus for most folks involves "descending
control", something that is present in many of the sensory systems in the
brain, that there is often as many neurons coming down from the brain to
the sensors as there are from the sensors "ascending" to the brain. These
descending control neurons appear to modulate the gain or sensitivity of
the sensory system in some of the cases where they have been studied.
But the descending control system has seen considerably less study than
some of the sensory neurons have.

There has been at least one published paper where a patient presenting
with high intracranial pressure (and thus drill a hole to reduce the
pressure before brain damage results) had the doctor lay a probe up next
to the auditory system and record the auditory nerve firings. How someone
could get such a procedure approved and get it published is puzzling.

But if similar recordings could be made of the ascending and descending
auditory nerve tracks in a patient with variable tinnitus, at low and high
levels of the tinnitus, then we might have some evidence for the mechanism
that thus far nobody has.

Risk would be moderate, local anesthesia only, sterile field, controlled
conditions, lots of experience drilling such holes in people, etc.
But getting the holes in the right place and being able to accurately
pick up ascending and descending potentials would be a little tricky.
But, if it were easy someone would already have done it. And without a
well established mechanism we see little progress in treating anything.

I'd be up for the experiment, just to see if I'm right or wrong.

 

[Frank Miles]

i saw a program where they worked on the theory that in tinitus the brain is
atempting to fill in for hearing loss by predicting what sounds should be
being heard. By playing a similar sound to the patient the brain no longer
tried to do this and was suposed to be quite efective.

It's a bit more complicated than that. There is a complex feedback system
within the cochlea, with the outer hair cells apparently having motility
and providing mechanical feedback to the basilar membrane, indirectly
boosting the sensitivity to the sensory inner hair cells.

There is simple, direct physical proof of this energy-consuming mechanism:
in at least some cases tinnitus is audible to an external listener (or
microphone). Like most transducers, the cochlea apparently has some ability
to work in the reverse direction! This was first demonstrated ~15-20 years
ago IIRC. Of course it is quite possible that there are purely neural
mechanisms for tinnitus, since there are a variety of kinds of damage that
can be done to our auditory systems; and it may still be true that
overexcitation of the outer hair cells might be suppressed through clever
application of acoustic or electrical energy. So the strategy might work,
but the mechanism might be different than for a purely neural system.

-frank
--

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Frank Miles <[email protected]>

There is a complex feedback
system within the cochlea, with the outer hair cells apparently having
motility and providing mechanical feedback to the basilar membrane,
indirectly boosting the sensitivity to the sensory inner hair cells.

The outer hair cells may have an inhibitory function. One effect of loss
or damage is to induce 'recruitment', where the ear tends to respond
linearly to sound pressures instead of logarithmically.

 

[Rich Grise]

I'd be up for the experiment, just to see if I'm right or wrong.

Do you mean as the patient? Would you like to try something a little
less intrusive, if a little silly-sounding at first?

When you get an "attack" of your noise, listen to it, as if it's
a radio station that's almost swamped in static (or whatever it
sounds like to you) and see if you can imagine it as some form
of communication, maybe hyperspace radio from aliens, or something;
listen with an attitude maybe something like, "Well, the guy's taking a
flight of fancy, but what's wrong with playing pretend just this once,
just so I can tell him he's wrong." And actually try to "actively
listen," as I said, like you're trying to pick a single conversation
out of a crowd, or whatever way you feel like "listening" to
your tinnitus.

Every now and then I get a mild ringing in my ears, as I suppose
almost everybody does from time to time, and I've tried that
listen-to-it trick, and it makes it go away.

Let me know what happens, OK?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Do you mean as the patient? Would you like to try something a little
less intrusive, if a little silly-sounding at first?

When you get an "attack" of your noise, listen to it, as if it's
a radio station that's almost swamped in static (or whatever it
sounds like to you) and see if you can imagine it as some form
of communication, maybe hyperspace radio from aliens, or something;
listen with an attitude maybe something like, "Well, the guy's taking a
flight of fancy, but what's wrong with playing pretend just this once,
just so I can tell him he's wrong." And actually try to "actively
listen," as I said, like you're trying to pick a single conversation
out of a crowd, or whatever way you feel like "listening" to
your tinnitus.

Every now and then I get a mild ringing in my ears, as I suppose
almost everybody does from time to time, and I've tried that
listen-to-it trick, and it makes it go away.

Let me know what happens, OK?

"Slaughter your family now - Satan commands it!"

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[Don Taylor]

Do you mean as the patient?
yes.

Would you like to try something a little
less intrusive, if a little silly-sounding at first?

When you get an "attack" of your noise, listen to it, as if it's
a radio station that's almost swamped in static (or whatever it
sounds like to you) and see if you can imagine it as some form
of communication, maybe hyperspace radio from aliens, or something;
listen with an attitude maybe something like, "Well, the guy's taking a
flight of fancy, but what's wrong with playing pretend just this once,
just so I can tell him he's wrong." And actually try to "actively
listen," as I said, like you're trying to pick a single conversation
out of a crowd, or whatever way you feel like "listening" to
your tinnitus.

You asked me to do that once before. I sincerely tried. I explained
that even though I tried it was just the same shrieking noisy whistle
that has been there for the last fifteen years. I'm really sorry but
I can't confirm that it is your space aliens trying to make contact.

Every now and then I get a mild ringing in my ears, as I suppose
almost everybody does from time to time, and I've tried that
listen-to-it trick, and it makes it go away.

With the right noise levels, and usually followed by a quieter period,
almost everybody can notice a low level of tinnitus-like symptoms.
Big doses of aspirin, and other ototoxins, can do the same.

Perhaps a decade or more ago folks sharing experiences with tinnitus
stumbled on the "triggering" idea, where many folks who have this
problem can figure out what sort of sounds can bring it on. Often
this is rather specific. But nobody, other than one guy who made
himself a lot of money "training" you to not care about the tinnitus,
seems to have reported any success with finding a way to trigger it
back off. And I'll promise you that I've spent a lot of months
looking for clues.

Let me know what happens, OK?

That's about it.

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Perhaps a decade or more ago folks sharing experiences with tinnitus
stumbled on the "triggering" idea, where many folks who have this
problem can figure out what sort of sounds can bring it on. Often
this is rather specific. But nobody, other than one guy who made
himself a lot of money "training" you to not care about the tinnitus,
seems to have reported any success with finding a way to trigger it
back off. And I'll promise you that I've spent a lot of months
looking for clues.

Can sound at about the same frequency cause interference effects?

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Don Taylor <[email protected]>

And I'll promise you that I've spent a lot of months looking for clues.

Have you tried:

http://www.rnid.org.uk/html/information/tinnitus/home.htm

Might be helpful.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Can sound at about the same frequency cause interference effects?

Yes, in my limited experience. I have mild, intermittent 'tonal'
tinnitus, hardly any more than normal 'ringing ears', except that it
often persists for several hours.