Strange problem with low energy light bulb

[Phil Allison]

"Eeysore ASININE LIAR "

I'd like to know if you've tried a Philips CFL.

** The CFL you see opened up on this page is one of mine.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/03/light-bulbs-and-eco-fascism.html

A Philips "Energy Saver " 18 watt, made in China.

Lasted less than 100 hours in service before one filament failed.

See the orange polyester film cap ( partly obscured by the electro ) on the
left hand edge of the PCB ?

It is 150 nF, rated at 400 V DC.

It is connected directly across the incoming 240 volt supply !!!!!!

See the smaller "greencap" on the right hand side of the PCB ?

It is a 3.3 nF rated at 200 volts DC.

It is wired in series with the two filaments and carries 120 volts rms at
38kHz !!!!

Both caps are grossly underrated for their jobs, suffer high failure rates
and are likely to catch fire.

Do Philips give a shit ?





........ Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

The only difference between 120V and 240V CFLs is the configuration of the
rectifier and filter capacitor(s) on the input.

** Where do fools like Sweet get this BOLLOCKS from ??

120 volt and 240 volt CFLs drive circuits mostly have the very similar
topology.

The tubes for the latter simply run at half the current of the former.

See for 120 volt CFLs.

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cflamp1.pdf

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cflamp2.pdf

See for 240 volt CFLs.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html


All 14 shown use a bridge rectifier at the AC input.


]

........ Phil

 

[Mr.T]

** The CFL you see opened up on this page is one of mine.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/03/light-bulbs-and-eco-fascism.html

A Philips "Energy Saver " 18 watt, made in China.

Lasted less than 100 hours in service before one filament failed.

See the orange polyester film cap ( partly obscured by the electro ) on the
left hand edge of the PCB ?

It is 150 nF, rated at 400 V DC.

It is connected directly across the incoming 240 volt supply !!!!!!

See the smaller "greencap" on the right hand side of the PCB ?

It is a 3.3 nF rated at 200 volts DC.

It is wired in series with the two filaments and carries 120 volts rms at
38kHz !!!!

Both caps are grossly underrated for their jobs, suffer high failure rates
and are likely to catch fire.

Do Philips give a shit ?

Simple answer, not IME either!

MrT.

 

[James Sweet]

in message


** Where do fools like Sweet get this BOLLOCKS from ??

120 volt and 240 volt CFLs drive circuits mostly have the very similar
topology.

The tubes for the latter simply run at half the current of the former.

See for 120 volt CFLs.

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cflamp1.pdf

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cflamp2.pdf

See for 240 volt CFLs.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html


All 14 shown use a bridge rectifier at the AC input.

Interesting, those are different than most of the ones I've torn apart which
had a voltage doubler with a pair of identical filter caps, these are mostly
older though. Either way the tube current is determined by characteristics
of the tube and most of a given diameter are about the same. Input voltage
does not determine tube current, the design of the ballast does, in the case
of the first one, the inductor L2 is primarily responsible for limiting lamp
current to something reasonable.

Getting rid of that crossposting crap, makes me wonder if any newsreaders
can warn when crossposting so I don't have to remember to check.

 

[Don Pearce]

"Don Pearce"




** That table says no such thing - fool.

You must be looking at a different table. The one I'm looking at has,
for example, a 100W 240 volt lamp giving 1330lm, while a 100W 120V
lamp gives 1710lm. And the difference is there for every power all the
way down the table. And things get better still as you drop to 12V,
which permits a seriously high filament temperature, quartz envelope
and a halogen cycle.

Now, what were you looking at that had them all the same?

d

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Pearce"

You must be looking at a different table.

** Nope.

The one I'm looking at has,
for example, a 100W 240 volt lamp giving 1330lm, while a 100W 120V
lamp gives 1710lm.

** See the average lamp hours figure has dropped by 25% ???

And the difference is there for every power all the
way down the table.

** So is the reduced life rating.

The data is taken off the marketing blurbs on maker's web sites, so is
basically bollocks and non comparable .

Fool.



......... Phil

 

[John Phillips]

I haven't been counting the precise hours but the ones I've had have lasted a
long, long time.

I'm just onto my second set of CFLs (GE) in the living room. I estimate
the first set (Osram, 23W, bought at great expense some eight years ago),
lasted for between 7,300 and 8,800 hours of actual use.

The Osram 23W in the kitchen is original and eight years old. It doesn't
do so many hours but it does get switched on and off very frequently.
So I am not convinced of the argument I occasionally see that on/off
cycles kill CFLs.

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Phillips"

The Osram 23W in the kitchen is original and eight years old. It doesn't
do so many hours but it does get switched on and off very frequently.
So I am not convinced of the argument I occasionally see that on/off
cycles kill CFLs.

** It kills the ones that are designed to start and reach full output very
quickly.

The heaters are run hotter in them and have high initial current levels.

Many independent tests have been done to verify the destructive effect of
many short cycles and it IS true.


........ Phil

 

[Eeyore]

"Eeyore" wrote


120V, or 240V like we have here?
240V.


Mine never last a year, standard fluoro tubes however last for 10 years or
more.
I know which I prefer!

The years depend on hours use per day of course but I have some that are used a
lot of the time (hall lighting for example) and I've had several years use from
them. Maybe around 3 years.

Graham

 

[Arfa Daily]

In Australia the "reputable makes" are simply rebadged Chinese shit as
well.
Are you sure you are not simply being fooled as well?

MrT.

That's very possible, and illustrates the point that if we, as people 'in
the know' can't tell if we are being sold genuine 'good' ones at a
subsidised price, badged Chinese shit at what *looks* like a good price, or
genuine Chinese shit at what's probably a realistic price, then how is Joe
Public going to stand any chance ?

We can all be fooled. Our governments do it to us all the time ...

Arfa

 

[Don Pearce]

That's very possible, and illustrates the point that if we, as people 'in
the know' can't tell if we are being sold genuine 'good' ones at a
subsidised price, badged Chinese shit at what *looks* like a good price, or
genuine Chinese shit at what's probably a realistic price, then how is Joe
Public going to stand any chance ?

We can all be fooled. Our governments do it to us all the time ...

Arfa

well, here in the UK the country of origin must be marked on the pack.

d

 

[Arfa Daily]

well, here in the UK the country of origin must be marked on the pack.

d

That's true Don, but be honest, how often do you look at such stuff ?

Arfa

 

[Don Pearce]

That's true Don, but be honest, how often do you look at such stuff ?

Arfa

Just had a good think about that, and do you know? Pretty much every
time.

Then I go "hmmmm" and buy it anyway.

d

 

[N Cook]

But also factor in the many more processes and transport movements to make
that one CFL. The PCB material has to be made. That then has to be shipped
to a PCB manufacturer, and from there to the lamp manufacturer. All of the
components on the PCB have to be made and shipped, and the materials to make
*them* made and shipped. Just think of an electrolytic cap for instance,
There's aluminium, steel, nickel, copper, rubber, paper, acid. Switching
tranny has copper, ferrite, steel, nickel, glue. Semicons have similar
metals plus silicon plus doping agents plus plastic. Every one of those
items has it's own manufacturing processes, spread all over the world, all
using energy, and no doubt creating their own pollutants. Plus workers that
have to be transported to and from a factory that has to be kept warm ( or
air-co'd ) and lit. They also have to be fed whilst they are there. Each
transport operation is another inefficient energy user, as the weight of the
transporting vehicle has to be shifted every time, as well as the load it is
carrying. Shifting the weight of a ship or aircraft is significant compared
to the weight of cargo it carries. Once all of those parts have arrived at
Philips or wherever, then they have to be assembled up into a CFL. I don't
really see how this whole process doesn't constitute "exporting pollution"
??

Also factor in the 'proper' recycling that is going to have to be done in
order for them to comply with the WEEE directive which already exists, but
for some reason, does not seem to be being applied to these devices at this
time. Clearly, the energy budget calculation for the manufacturing, lifetime
use, and disposal of these CFLs is very complex and probably almost
impossible to actually do with any accuracy but, when it comes down to it,
I'm willing to bet that there would not actually be much in it when compared
to manufacturing, using and disposing of 10 incandescents with their very
limited materials, processes and transport counts.

Unfortunately, these lamps are just another example of eco-hype, where it is
very easy to fool the average punter ( and politician, it would seem ) with
a bit of pseudo science regarding their apparent 'green' credentials with
regard to power consumption and lifetime. I don't dispute that they have
their place, and in pure terms of how much money they are going to take out
of my pocket in running costs, they almost certainly win over incandescents.
However, as others have mentioned, the light that they produce is not very
pleasant to 'use', nor is it very decorative, no matter how the
manufacturers mix up the phosphors to try to match the colour temperature of
an incandescent. Also, as Don says, where the useage period is short, and
there is not enough time for them to warm up properly, or where instant full
light is required, as when entering a room in the dark, they are less than
satisfactory. This problem is exacerbated in Northern Europe winters, where
it is both dark AND cold ...

Arfa

The colour supplement
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/0,,180242,00.html
of this paper on Saturday had pictures( p5 5,38,39 )of the end result of
those otherwise empty shipping containers going back to the east and WEEE
directive.
For little more than the admin costs they can fill the containers with our
e-waste. Mountains of CRTs , circuit boards having been heat stripped of
components , lead and tin and dumped in the Indian countryside.

 

[Don Pearce]

"Don Pearce"


** Nope.



** See the average lamp hours figure has dropped by 25% ???

750 to 1000 hours is pretty normal for the lifetime of a 240V bulb, so
no, there isn't a lifetime penalty.

** So is the reduced life rating.

The data is taken off the marketing blurbs on maker's web sites, so is
basically bollocks and non comparable .

You got something better?

d

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Pearce Fuckwit Pommy **** "

750 to 1000 hours is pretty normal for the lifetime of a 240V bulb, so
no, there isn't a lifetime penalty.

** Looks like a nasty 25 % one to any sane person - CUNTHEAD !!

You got something better?

** YOU are the one that needs BETTER - ARSEHOLE .

A whole lot better than some bollocks on wiki.

Maybe try a nice net blog ??

If you ever get out of those *bogs* you like tolling.



....... Phil

 

[Don Pearce]

"Don Pearce Fuckwit Pommy **** "




** Looks like a nasty 25 % one to any sane person - CUNTHEAD !!

Oh dear, poor Phil. Too wound up to even read the table. Take another
look and you will see that the 120V column contains a mixture of 750
and 1000 hour bulbs. Your assertion that 120V displays a 25% drop over
240V simply isn't borne out.

** YOU are the one that needs BETTER - ARSEHOLE .

A whole lot better than some bollocks on wiki.

Maybe try a nice net blog ??

If you ever get out of those *bogs* you like tolling.

I've heard of tolling bells, but not bogs. Is this some sort of
Australian hobby?

Q. What noise does it make when Phil tolls his bog?
A. Dung!

d

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Pearce Fuckwit Pommy **** "

Take another
look and you will see that the 120V column contains a mixture of 750
and 1000 hour bulbs.

** The 100 watt lamp example YOU raised is 750 and so are most of them.

CUNTHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your assertion that 120V displays a 25% drop over
240V simply isn't borne out.

** Is too in the example YOU raised - CUNTHEAD !!

I've heard of tolling bells, but not bogs.

** Only an autistic, gay pedo maggot would make that remark.




...... Phil

 

[Don Pearce]

"Don Pearce Fuckwit Pommy **** "


** The 100 watt lamp example YOU raised is 750 and so are most of them.

CUNTHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never mind, Phil. The nurse will be along soon. Didn't she promise to
take you to basket weaving classes tomorrow?

** Is too in the example YOU raised - CUNTHEAD !!







** Only an autistic, gay pedo maggot would make that remark.

I'll just have to leave that to you, I'm afraid.

d

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Pearce"


** Only an autistic, gay pedo maggot would make that remark.





....... Phil