Strange problem with low energy light bulb

[Straw Man]

Phil Allison is a mincing Poodle Pounder.

 

[Arfa Daily]

Just had a good think about that, and do you know? Pretty much every
time.

Then I go "hmmmm" and buy it anyway.

d

Point made then !!

Arfa

 

[Smitty Two]

well, here in the UK the country of origin must be marked on the pack.

d

Country of origin can be fudged a little. I have firsthand knowledge of
a medical product, used in surgery, manufactured in the U.S. Units sold
in the U.S. were appropriately labeled.

But, manufacturer put a "manufactured in <some European country>"
sticker on the ones shipped to Europe. The insiders in Europe added the
battery to the otherwise complete unit. Presto, made in Europe, European
medical approval granted.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Ony for a good one at the start of it's life. They get even dimmer with use
though.

I see 1710, 1730 and 1750 on packages having "standard" incandescents,
as low as 1670 for 750 hour soft white.

The lowest wattage CFLs I have seen produce 1700-plus lumens are the
Philips 25 watt SLS (1750 lumens) and 26 watt spirals.

I think some 18 watt ones produce 1200 lumens. A standard 75W
incandescent (120V 750 hour) produces 1190-1210 lumens. So optimistically
an 18W CFL in new condition will match that.

They're probably comparing to an industrial service 60W incandescent,
which does indeed produce only about 600 lumens.

In my experience, a 13W CFL in new condition matches a 60W standard
incandescent when things are going well for the CFL.

The usual actual "standard incandescent" equivalences of CFLs in new
condition:

9W spiral - 40 watts

13W spiral - optimistically 60 watts
15W spiral - 60 watts fairly easily

18-20W spirals - 75 watts

23 watt spirals - between 75 and 100, good to perform as well as a 75
after they have aged or are running at non-optimum temperature.

25 watt Philips and 26 watt spirals - 100 watts

30 watt spirals - 100 watts after aging or when temperature is non-optimum

Me too, and those equally silly 8,000 hour claims.

That is for 3 hours per start in a 25 degree C ambient. This is the
actual industry standard for fluorescents. I think that a more
appropriate one for incandescent-replacement CFLs should be 1 hour per
start in a 40 degree C ambient.

Meanwhile, I do have CFLs normally last a few thousand hours.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected], http://www.misty.com/~don/cfx.html)

 

[Don Klipstein]

Which do fail.


Never had one that lasted "years", and I've used dozens.
12-18 months is the best I've had, zero being the worst.

I had plenty last a few thousand actual operating hours, some that get
switched more maybe 2,000-3,000. Most of mine lasted a few years.

Of course, and turning off lights when not in use saves more power than
leaving CFL's on.


Wow, and how much power can you save by turning them off?
My outdoor lights are solar powered.


Not all. I did buy a two part CFL once, and when the tube failed, no
replacements are available.

Was that a Lights of America product? I have noticed a lot of
complaints about them. A few are for making products that require
proprietary bulbs that they since discontinued. More are for
life/reliability issues and for falling short of claimed light output.

If it was not LOA, then chances are the tubes are industry standard ones
with replacements of GE, Philips, and Osram/Sylvania being available.
Look in home centers, hardwares stores, and electrical/lighting supply
shops.

Back to standard tubes for me!

The standard ones are superior. CFLs are mainly for retrofitting
incandescent fixtures or for use in small fixtures of size like that of
incandescent fixtures.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[GPE]

I haven't been counting the precise hours but the ones I've had have
lasted a
long, long time.

Graham

I've had ones that I counted the lifespan in seconds. Burned out before I
got off the ladder when replacing them....

-- Ed

 

[Sjouke Burry]

well, here in the UK the country of origin must be marked on the pack.

d

And what if they are repacked in a remote corner
of your country.
We have had that done to real DUTCH apples, from
Italy ect.
And your supplying country from the east is quite
willing to put any text on the device and package......

 

[Phil Allison]

"GPE".

I've had ones that I counted the lifespan in seconds. Burned out before I
got off the ladder when replacing them....

** Had one do just that on me recently - it lasted about 3 seconds.

Returned it to the store for replacement and the staffer moaned that I had
opened the packet !!

BTW

Be sure NEVER to put one in a socket that operates from a dimmer, no matter
that it may be kept set at maximum - it will still fry the CFL's
electronics.


See this page, about half way through, under "Normal" CFL Failure Modes.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm



......... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Phil Allison"

"GPE".
Be sure NEVER to put one in a socket that operates from a dimmer, no
matter that it may be kept set at maximum - it will still fry the CFL's
electronics.


See this page, about half way through, under "Normal" CFL Failure Modes.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

** Also see pic of scope trace of incredibly spiky AC current draw -
figure 12 near the end of the page.




......... Phil

 

[James Sweet]

Was that a Lights of America product? I have noticed a lot of
complaints about them. A few are for making products that require
proprietary bulbs that they since discontinued. More are for
life/reliability issues and for falling short of claimed light output.

LOA is usually pure junk. The curious thing I've noticed about them is that
at least in the past, they used top quality Japanese tubes with about the
cheapest most junky Chinese ballasts I've ever seen. I don't think I ever
had one of the ballasts last long enough to wear out a tube so the
replaceable aspect is not really worth much.

 

[Eeyore]

I've had ones that I counted the lifespan in seconds. Burned out before I
got off the ladder when replacing them....

That's certainly never happned to me. Were they 'off-brand' cheapies by any
chance.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

And what if they are repacked in a remote corner
of your country.
We have had that done to real DUTCH apples, from
Italy ect.
And your supplying country from the east is quite
willing to put any text on the device and package......

You're talking about something not at all related to CFLs here though.

Graham

 

[Sjouke Burry]

You're talking about something not at all related to CFLs here though.

Graham

No, it was about reliable labeling, and how much
trust you can put into that, as the country it
was produced in....

 

[Eeyore]

No, it was about reliable labeling, and how much
trust you can put into that, as the country it
was produced in....

I suppose one approach is to believe nothing.

Graham

 

[Steve Urbach]

Most of the CFL's I have installed make it to 9000 hours.
I mark the "in service" date on the base body. I have a few lamps that run
24/7 that repeatedly make it to rated time.
I have also had a number of DOA's (dead from the start) and a number that
failed in the first 30 days. Note: in all cases, CFL's were installed in open
fixtures and NOT on dimmers (or electronic timers).
Some long service time failures were spectacular (lots of smoke).

Non-CFL (AKA regular fluorescent) have starter failures that are more frequent
than CFL failures. These lamps are in locations that are not suitable for CFL
(Closed fixtures, High/low temperatures) , Yard lights, Bathroom fan and
Attic crawl spaces.

 

[Steve Urbach]

Was that a Lights of America product? I have noticed a lot of
complaints about them. A few are for making products that require
proprietary bulbs that they since discontinued. More are for
life/reliability issues and for falling short of claimed light output.

I have had good luck with LOA and terrible longevity issues with Feit in the
same service location.

 

[clifto]

I have had good luck with LOA and terrible longevity issues with Feit in the
same service location.

So far I've had nothing but Feit 23W CFLs and I'm averaging 2-1/2 years on
a bulb. Don't think any lasted less than two years.

 

[Mr.T]

The years depend on hours use per day of course but I have some that are used a
lot of the time (hall lighting for example) and I've had several years use from
them. Maybe around 3 years.

Which is still a hell of a lot less than I get from standard fluoro tubes.
And I think my observations are more directly comparable for my
applications.
You can use whatever works for you.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

I see 1710, 1730 and 1750 on packages having "standard" incandescents,
as low as 1670 for 750 hour soft white.

The lowest wattage CFLs I have seen produce 1700-plus lumens are the
Philips 25 watt SLS (1750 lumens) and 26 watt spirals.

But even then not for their full life expectency unfortunately.

30 watt spirals - 100 watts after aging or when temperature is non-optimum

And they seem to be both hard to obtain, and expensive. And since the
wattage is approx 1/3rd, the savings are less than claimed.

That is for 3 hours per start in a 25 degree C ambient. This is the
actual industry standard for fluorescents. I think that a more
appropriate one for incandescent-replacement CFLs should be 1 hour per
start in a 40 degree C ambient.

40degC ambient???
Is that how you get the claimed life expectency, no wonder I never do.

Meanwhile, I do have CFLs normally last a few thousand hours.

And I still dream of even getting that much. I guess it will happen one day.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

The standard ones are superior. CFLs are mainly for retrofitting
incandescent fixtures or for use in small fixtures of size like that of
incandescent fixtures.

Small size standard tubes have been available for decades.
The cost of replacing fittings is worth it IME.

MrT.