[Eeyore]

Most of the rest of us can't stand you.

Since when did YOU talk for anyone else never mind "the rest of us" ?

Arrogant twat.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Efficiency of electrolysis you moron.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

If you lived in the country, or on a farm, you would want to have a
solar battery setup,

I would WANT to have mains electricity actually.

and then you would produce your own power for
your equipment for free using water.

Not for free unless the the generating kit is being given away these days.

Batteries require regular replacement too. That's not free either.


Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Why waste energy making Brown's gas ?

Graham

Well its not a waste of energy. As you have seen in the Korean video
from one company producing the Brown's Gas generator, it is 1/16th the
cost of oxy-acetylene.
So for industrial countries, they can save money on the assembly line
for spot welding.

But really employing it in that fashion world wide, just allows us to
really get the technology out there, so that Aussie farmers can make
you all look like a bunch of dunderheads.

Seriously.

Don't you feel really really stupid when you see how easy it is, to
take a few pieces of metal, and put them in a jar, like a battery,
which incidentally does give off gas of this sort remember? Batteries
do give off gas.

But then you geniuses wouldn't know how a battery works because it is
too high tech for you NASA scientists and the like.

But you just use the same principal as a battery to make the gas, only
you do it more efficiently and then you connect a tube to the top of
the jar, and run that into the carburetor, and it makes the motor go.

Someone really needs to get you people outside of your cushy offices
and draw the principles with a stick in the dirt for you because I
think you must be lost in space or something.

You should be able to make a little desktop power generator for motor-
homes that runs on water.

You should also be able to run the motorhome on water.
And so then when you go exploring in the outback, or wherever, you
just have to be able to find water and you will never run out of fuel.

But again to answer the question why have they been making welders of
this kind, it is so you could not poison all the people who were using
this technology, and you could not coerce them into not using it but
mostly to show how incompetent you are at what you do.

This is really my favorite because you can see just how high tech this
is, and why it has stumped the pentagon and NASA for so long.

 

[Eeyore]

You can easily get 100 mpg on a liter of water.

No you CAN'T.

The electrolysis of the water requires electrical energy. The electrical energy
required to do this electrolysis is MORE than you get back in return from the
hydrogen and oxygen so formed.

Because of this wastefulness, the overall energy efficiency of the process is WORSE
than running the car on gasoline in the first place.

Of course if you mean it's >100mpg because you used no *gasoline* to power the car
then that's simply a case of misleading accounting. Or it could be called a LIE.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Cars are 18% efficient

Only in the USA are they that bad.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Well its not a waste of energy. As you have seen in the Korean video
from one company producing the Brown's Gas generator, it is 1/16th the
cost of oxy-acetylene.

We were talking about cars (note the thread title) not acetylene torches and
welding. I don't know of any cars running on acetylene. Why are you confusing
the issue ?

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

I would WANT to have mains electricity actually.


Not for free unless the the generating kit is being given away these days.

Batteries require regular replacement too. That's not free either.

Graham

What does it cost to fill up a car these days?

For the cost of two fillups, you can covert it to run on water using
that simple principal.

And in one of the videos I showed where he is in his garage with all
that high tech milking equipment, he throws a match into the glass
jar, and it explodes/(actually implodes) the gas rising off the
surface with a bang, and it does no damage whatsoever.

How safe is that? So every time a person dies in a fiery crash on the
highway, that could have been prevented.

Here is the video where he throws a match into the jar.

 

[Eeyore]

What does it cost to fill up a car these days?

For the cost of two fillups, you can covert it to run on water using
that simple principal.

So, presumably in view of this compelling evidence you must have converted your
car to run on water then ?

Why not tell us how well it works ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

There you go again!

It's TRUE. American cars are notoriously inefficient.

Graham

 

[Jamie]

Androcles wrote:




Only in the USA are they that bad.

Graham

There you go again!

You fringing pecker head.

 

[[email protected]]

So, presumably in view of this compelling evidence you must have converted your
car to run on water then ?

Why not tell us how well it works ?

Graham

I live downtown in Victoria. I hardly ever use my car. I spend maybe
200 bucks a year to fuel it but if I lived in the country I would
convert it for sure.

When someone comes up with a neat off the shelf package for 80 bucks
at Canadian Tire (our automotive retail giant) I will throw one in the
New Yorker. Until then I am too lazy to make one myself.

No I am thinking of buying one of these electric bikes.
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_BTr.html
4 cents a day to run it.

And the cost is $1800 today but they will drop in price to a grand in
a year or two. It is one of the fastest growing industries right now,
making and selling these things.

This is just stupid selling them for $11,000 when you can buy one for
$1500
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/329866_seenscene01.html

Here is a nice one for $1800
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_XPi.html

 

[Robert Adsett]

There is audio in this video. You just have to turn up the vlume a little.
In this video, the sheep farmer explains the plates inside a simple device for
separating hydrogen and oxygen.
He then hooks it up directly to the carbuerator, and then starts the car/van.

The think weighs 5 pounds and is contained in an old brown sugar jar so you can
see it in action.

It has water in a jar, and a simple series of plates and a metal mesh around
the plates.

He attaches the battery to the cell, and when the engine runs, the alternator
in the motor, increases its current as it charges your car battery, but that
same principal, produces enough gas to fire the motor and to increase the gas
production as you accellerate the motor.

There you see a car running on water. On a device worth at most 100 bucks,
made by a sheep farmer.

You could make it recycle the water coming out of the exhaust as some have
done.

OK, let's run a simple sanity check. You have

1 - A battery feeding current to an electrolyzer generating a
stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.
2 - The gas is fed to a ICE, running the engine and regenerating the
water.
3 - A fraction of the ICE power is diverted to a generator/alternator
back to the battery and electrolyzer.

Now run through a simple set of efficiency numbers since all of these
process are well known. We'll assume the battery is 100% efficient. It
will be less but it simplifies the analysis and can be dealt with later
if it matters.

Step 1 - Electrolysis. There is an inevitable 15% loss on the
conversion. That is the absolute maximum you could achieve, any real
unit will be less and one like you've described will probably be much
less.
Step 2 - ICE efficiency, let's be generous and say 40%
Step 3 - Lets be generous and say 50% of the ICE power is diverted
to the generator. We'll also be generous and assume the generator is
100% efficient.

Now if you work that through you have 0.85*0.4*0.5 = 17% efficiency.
It's going to grind to a halt fairly quickly. You would be a lot
further ahead just running off of the battery directly.

You can easily get 100 mpg on a liter of water. And it is safe because it
doesn't store gas. It only produces what it needs.

Sooner or later, one of these backyard inventors fooling around with
this stuff is going to blow things up in spectacular fashion.

Robert

 

[[email protected]]

I live downtown in Victoria. I hardly ever use my car. I spend maybe
200 bucks a year to fuel it but if I lived in the country I would
convert it for sure.

When someone comes up with a neat off the shelf package for 80 bucks
at Canadian Tire (our automotive retail giant) I will throw one in the
New Yorker. Until then I am too lazy to make one myself.

No I am thinking of buying one of these electric bikes.http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_BTr.html
4 cents a day to run it.

And the cost is $1800 today but they will drop in price to a grand in
a year or two. It is one of the fastest growing industries right now,
making and selling these things.

This is just stupid selling them for $11,000 when you can buy one for
$1500http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/329866_seenscene01.html

Here is a nice one for $1800http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_XPi.html

If you are interested in speed, this three wheeler will do 80 km hr.
http://www.greenwit.com/Scooters/ATVScooter.htm

 

[Robert Adsett]

No I am thinking of buying one of these electric bikes.
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_BTr.html
4 cents a day to run it.

And the cost is $1800 today but they will drop in price to a grand in
a year or two. It is one of the fastest growing industries right now,
making and selling these things.

This is just stupid selling them for $11,000 when you can buy one for
$1500
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/329866_seenscene01.html

Here is a nice one for $1800
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_XPi.html

Did you look at the specifications? Those are very different machines.
One with a 30km range and a 30km/hr top speed, the other with a 60mile
range and a 60mph top speed.

Robert

 

[[email protected]]

Did you look at the specifications? Those are very different machines.
One with a 30km range and a 30km/hr top speed, the other with a 60mile
range and a 60mph top speed.

Robert

I think the regulations are different in America and Canada.
In America they are allowed to let them go faster. In Canada they
managed to get them classified as a bike, so you don't have to even
have a drivers license.
If you want an electric motorcycle, then in Canada you need a drivers
license to operate those, and they sell for about $2,500 to $3,500

It depends what you want one for. For me, just to get around the city,
it would be perfect. And since it is classified as a bike, you don't
even have to pay for parking. You can park a bicycle anywhere.

So it faster than a car to get around in the city, even faster than
the bus, according to people who have bought them in Vancouver.
But they are limited to 32 km hr. Well that is normal for in city
driving.

If you wanted to take one on the highway, well if you want to be in
traffic on the highway, then you would want an electric motorcycle.
This one will do 70 km hr. which would be ok for commuting.
Considering it only costs $2,700 brand new, thats pretty cheap.
And pennies a day to run. Like maybe 8 cents a day.
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Motorcycles/MotGTc.html

You see why spend 40 or 50,000 on an electric car, when you can spend
$2,700 on a bike?

It seems to me, that they could make an electric car for 10 grand if
they wanted to. Until then, some people will buy hybrid cars for 60
and 80 thousand, but more and more people are opting for scooters and
bikes.
If it rains, take the car, if it nice out, take the bike.

You see the manufacturers are under pressure not make an affordable
electric car.
So in this way we can all **** them totally in the ass every way till
Tuesday, by buying cheap electric scooters!

 

[[email protected]]

You know Americans are up to their keester in debt. The government and
the people for the last 7 years or so, have been not working unless
you call making websites working, and they have been borrowing like
crazy, and now of course with what they call the sub prime catastrophe
well things are beginning to tighten up.
No where near as tight as they will be in 6 months.
So making $100,000 electric sports cars, is ok for some people, some
people will always be able to afford that, but most will be looking at
scooters.
This looks like a nice car for $100,000
http://www.nbc11.com/technology/14203443/detail.html

But for GM and the rest well, all those cars and SUV's you see on the
road, well a lot of them are bad loans right now, and people have to
give lots of them back. So prices may fall on used SUV's.

 

[Robert Adsett]

I think the regulations are different in America and Canada.
In America they are allowed to let them go faster. In Canada they
managed to get them classified as a bike, so you don't have to even
have a drivers license.

Not in most of the country as far as I know. I'm fairly certain that
scooters are classified as motorcycles in Ontario for instance.

If you want an electric motorcycle, then in Canada you need a drivers
license to operate those, and they sell for about $2,500 to $3,500

It depends what you want one for. For me, just to get around the city,
it would be perfect. And since it is classified as a bike, you don't
even have to pay for parking. You can park a bicycle anywhere.

So it faster than a car to get around in the city, even faster than
the bus, according to people who have bought them in Vancouver.
But they are limited to 32 km hr. Well that is normal for in city
driving.

30km/hr is reasonable for some in city driving but most of the countries
urban roads have 50 or 60km/hr limit so you are travelling slower than
the rest of the traffic. Not necessarily a huge impediment but I'd want
to stay out of heavy traffic.

If you wanted to take one on the highway, well if you want to be in
traffic on the highway, then you would want an electric motorcycle.
This one will do 70 km hr. which would be ok for commuting.
Considering it only costs $2,700 brand new, thats pretty cheap.
And pennies a day to run. Like maybe 8 cents a day.
http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Motorcycles/MotGTc.html

70km/hr is close to suicide on the highway. It's dangerous enough in an
automobile I shudder to imagine what that would be like on a bike.

You see why spend 40 or 50,000 on an electric car, when you can spend
$2,700 on a bike?

There's a little matter of 6-8 months of snow, ice and sleet.

Robert

 

[Robert Adsett]

You see the manufacturers are under pressure not make an affordable
electric car.
So in this way we can all **** them totally in the ass every way till
Tuesday, by buying cheap electric scooters!

Batteries are expensive. The high power controllers needed aren't
necessarily cheap either but it's the batteries that are the real bottle
neck and have been for decades. I work with electric vehicles, The
real ones not the fringe ones like automobiles

Robert

 

[Paul F. Dietz]

I mean if you are so down on Arabs and the people of Iran, why not

just opt for Brown's gas and make all that oil worthless?

Because "Brown's gas" is in utterly idiotic idea espoused only
by the terminally stupid?

Paul