UPS recommendations

[Rich Grise]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down. So,
everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed to be
reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said, yeah,
in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Nico Coesel]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down. So,
everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed to be
reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said, yeah,
in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

My experience with UPSses is that a UPS actually causes more power
outages than it helps to prevent. A UPS needs maintenance and can
break down. Its far from something you kick in the corner and live
happily ever after. So if you really want to increase reliability
you'll need a coputer with a dual power supply each powered from a
different source.

 

[JeffM]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down.
So, everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office
needed to be reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?"
I said, yeah, in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS,
uninterruptible power supply.
[...]
So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
[...]and could supply two computers long enough to save everything
and shut down?
And some real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries
for more holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

A page that gives an idea where you're sending your money:
http://google.com/search?q=cache:Y2...it+last+org+Switzerland+sister+Turkey+Germany

 

[PeterD]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down. So,
everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed to be
reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said, yeah,
in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

Thanks,
Rich

APC... Powerware... And a few others. Any unit rated for commercial or
SOHO will probalby be OK if it is not a cheap Chinese import.

 

[Martin Riddle]

APC, we've been using a 1500 on the server for the last 5 years, no
problems, 15 minute reserve.
Battery replacement alert, web server in Powerchute to monitor the
status.

figure 600 VA per system that you want to protect.

Cheers

 

[westom]

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down?

Just another reason for a laptop computer.

 

[Jasen Betts]

Just another reason for a laptop computer.

for the same price you coulad have a faster desktop with a
full keyboard, a larger screen and a UPS that'll run it for
longer than the laptop battery.

 

[Ken]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down.
So, everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed
to be reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said,
yeah, in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible
power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

Thanks,
Rich

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165&ISOCountryCode=us

 

[T]

My experience with UPSses is that a UPS actually causes more power
outages than it helps to prevent. A UPS needs maintenance and can
break down. Its far from something you kick in the corner and live
happily ever after. So if you really want to increase reliability
you'll need a coputer with a dual power supply each powered from a
different source.

That was our experience back when I worked for the RI Sec. State's
office. We had invidual APC UPS's on servers but to be honest it became
a maintenance nightmare.

When it came time to move the corporations and elections divisions I
made the push that since those were our two biggest support units, I.T.
should move with them.

Managed to use HAVA money to build out the datacenter. Replaced all
those little APC's with one big one, a Symmetra ultimately designed for
a minimum of 15 minutes backup power. We overbuilt, in the end we had 45
minutes.

Plus that Symmetra was backed up by a 125kW natural gas fired generator
that kicked on within 10 seconds of power fail.

Nice solid power and the Symmetra would email both us and APC when a
battery in the massive bank needed replacement. The next day the new
battery would show up and it was easy to just snap it in.

We tried for maximum redundancy. But the fly in the ointment was DNS
services. The state's DoIT (Dept. of I.T.) provided all DNS services for
us and one time there was a massive power failure in the city.

All our stuff was up and running including phones (Yes, we put the pbx
on the Symmetra too!) but without DNS we couldn't get out, and people
trying to hit our sites couldn't get in.

Kind of made the point that DoIT had to have redundant power too.

 

[Nobody]

My experience with UPSses is that a UPS actually causes more power
outages than it helps to prevent. A UPS needs maintenance and can
break down. Its far from something you kick in the corner and live
happily ever after. So if you really want to increase reliability
you'll need a coputer with a dual power supply each powered from a
different source.

And 2 UPSs. No amount of redundant PSUs will help if the mains fails.

FWIW, my experience has been somewhat better. I have a 500VA Liebert PSA,
and the only problem so far was that it needed a new battery after 5 years
of 24/7 use. When the battery died, the alarm sounded and the warning
indicators lit, but it continued to run okay (presumably it wouldn't have
worked in the event of a power failure).

In that time, it kept the computers (2 PCs) running through brief (< 1min)
power failures which occur maybe 3-5 times a year, plus 3 longer failures
where it allowed for a safe shutdown. It hasn't caused any outages,
although I daresay it will cause one when it eventually dies.

 

[1PW]

Most UPS supplies charge an internal battery when the line is good, and a
relay drops out at power loss, switching the UPS online.

That is the definition of an SPS. An SPS is a "poor man's UPS" and is
not a very attractive solution for IT applications. The OP would
probably want an "On-Line UPS" where *no break* output power is supplied
to the load until the unit is turned off, or the batteries reach a
pre-determined point where internal circuitry shuts the unit down when
nearing battery exhaustion.

Most are good for about 15 minutes, more than enough for a graceful
shutdown.
Just make sure the US is rated for at least the the same amount of max
power the devices (computer,printer,modem, etc) draw.

Pete

 

[westom]

That is the definition of an SPS.  An SPS is a "poor man's UPS" and is
not a very attractive solution for IT applications.  The OP would
probably want an "On-Line UPS" where *no break* output power is supplied
to the load until the unit is turned off, or the batteries reach a
pre-determined point where internal circuitry shuts the unit down when
nearing battery exhaustion.

That is the UPS designed only for IT applications. For example, IT
equipment is intentionally designed so that "break" output power
causes no problems. Furthermore, IT equipment is designed so that
'dirty' power from a typical UPS (that can harm small electric motors)
does not harm IT equipment.

Robert Baer accurately described a computer grade UPS. Typical PC
user has a $100 UPS. "No break" outputs or to provide hours of power
requires UPSes of $500 or more. IOW a UPS to do what any laptop does
means more money - not less as another has claimed.

A typical computer grade UPS provides sufficient power to save data.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Strange, about 10 years ago i got a USED UPS and it never gave me any
problems, other than needing a new battery after 5 years of use.

You are talking about one UPS. I'm talking about experience with a
whole bunch of UPSs which are not located under my desk!

 

[Nico Coesel]

That is the definition of an SPS. An SPS is a "poor man's UPS" and is
not a very attractive solution for IT applications. The OP would
probably want an "On-Line UPS" where *no break* output power is supplied
to the load until the unit is turned off, or the batteries reach a
pre-determined point where internal circuitry shuts the unit down when
nearing battery exhaustion.

You don't want an on-line UPS for a simple reason: reliability. In an
on-line UPS the electronics are always working which causes quicker
deterioration. An on-line UPS is more complex so more things can
break. And last but not least the electronics in an on-line UPS have
to deal with the rush-in current from the load as well.

And there is no need for an on-line UPS. All switching power supplies
are designed to allow a few missing mains cycles so having a relay
that switches between the mains and the battery powered inverter is
not a problem at all.

 

[att]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down. So,
everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed to be
reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said, yeah,
in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

Thanks,
Rich

APC, American Power Conversion. I sold them for years

 

[1PW]

You don't want an on-line UPS for a simple reason: reliability. In an
on-line UPS the electronics are always working which causes quicker
deterioration. An on-line UPS is more complex so more things can
break. And last but not least the electronics in an on-line UPS have
to deal with the rush-in current from the load as well.

And there is no need for an on-line UPS. All switching power supplies
are designed to allow a few missing mains cycles so having a relay
that switches between the mains and the battery powered inverter is
not a problem at all.

Hello Robert, westom and Nico:

Perhaps I've let my past UPS experiences atrophy. I'll do some research
on my UPS notions. However, please let me keep my UPS connected in the
meantime!

Thank you.

Pete

 

[JosephKK]

We had a power glitch yesterday, and all of the computers shut down. So,
everybody had to reboot, and the hub in the front office needed to be
reset.

The boss asked, "Don't we have one of those surge things?" I said, yeah,
in that power strip; what you mean is a UPS, uninterruptible power supply.

He says, "What's one of those, about a couple hundred bucks?" I said,
"Yeah." and he left.

So, anybody got a recommendation for one that's truly uninterruptible -
I don't want to depend on the copmputer's capacitors, and could supply
two computers long enough to save everything and shut down? And some
real frosting would be the ability to add external batteries for more
holdup time!.

So, anybody got any favorites? (115V 60 HZ input).

Thanks,
Rich

Per computer or just one for the whole office?

 

[Nico Coesel]

In other words you didn't do any decent preventative maintenance, yet
expected everything to keep working. How hard is it to inventory them
and set a battery replacement schedule? All of mine were still giving
good service after five years, when it was time to replace the
batteries.

Customers... I used to notify a customer when their UPS needs
maintenance but if they don't give me the order to do the maintenance
then its up to them. Anyway, I quit that business a long time ago.

 

[Nico Coesel]

When I can get a laptop with a 22 inch monitor, decent speakers, a
laser printer and a flatbed scanner, I'll consider it. Until then I'll
use a UPS with each desktop computer.

Get a laptop with a decent DVI output and connect a 22" monitor to it.
You can use a laptop just like a desktop machine.

 

[krw]

Get a laptop with a decent DVI output and connect a 22" monitor to it.
You can use a laptop just like a desktop machine.

If I'm docked, my laptop gets al strung out when the power fails. USB
gets royally hosed so it loses the external mouse and keyboard. It
has to be shut down, battery removed, and then restarted for
everything to work again. As often as it happens now, a UPS is high
on the priorities.