Weirdest problem

M

Marlboro

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roderick Stewart said:
Nonsense. This situation is absolutely screaming that it is a thermal problem
of some sort. Something works when it is cold, but doesn't work when it is
hot. Something that is required to trigger the power supply into life, though
without a service manual and appropriate measuring instruments, it would be
difficult to suggest what.


What sort of a "capacitor" is a "400V mains rectifier"?

The best advice here is from the person who suggested buying a new TV. For a
small screen TV that is 7 years old, repir wouldn't be worth the cost or the
bother. Above all, IF YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING, DON'T MESS
WITH THE INSIDES OF A TV SET. YOU COULD ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF, OR BY FITTING
THE WRONG COMPONENTS YOU COULD CAUSE SOMETHING TO OVERHEAT AND START A FIRE.
(No apologies for the capitals).

Rod.

wonder if someone was killed by a TV set?
 
R

Roderick Stewart

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, the entire outside is *supposed* to be grounded (or earthed).
and the HV connected to the inside ...
but if there is a problem with the return circuit, the entire outside
WILL BE at high voltage. ANd how do you *know* it isn't?

The outside of the tube is generally earthed using a couple of springs
stretched across it, and it should be obvious if these have become
detached. In fact, I've never seen this happen.

Rod.
 
J

Joseph Hansen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you some sort of a fucking idiot - of course the TV doesnt have an
xray detector, it monitors eht voltage and shuts it down if it exceeds
the potential required to generate X rays. If you want to argue
semantics, go to alt.argument.stupid.idiots who cant read (or
whatever). You might have been a xray tech in the army, I am a TV tech
now, and if you want to grab any TV schematic you can see the area
labelled "xray protection". And Xrays thru the feet - bugger me, thats
a new one. Do aliens speak to you thru your headphones as well?

de VK3BFA Andrew

You must have got confused. I'm the one who repaired x-ray machines for the
army, but I'm not the one who is insisting that there are no x-ray detection
circuits in a tv.... that's the other guy. I know how to make x-rays, and I
can tell you for a fact that the main difference between a tube designed for
the purpose and a CRT is.... get this,... the voltage potential. That's
right, put a high enough potential on a CRT and it WILL EMIT X-RAYS. And
that's the point of the "x-ray detect" circuitry. It doesn't detect actual
x-rays, it detects the conditions necessary to create them. Because if
those conditions exist, you can count on it that x-rays are being created.
 
J

Joseph Hansen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roderick Stewart said:
When I was young (1950s, possibly as late as early 60s) some shoe shops had
fluoroscopes to show you an X-ray view of a child's feet, so you could see how
well the shoes fitted. I must have had my feet in one of these things several
times a year before the age of about 12. Haven't got cancer in my feet, or
anywhere else (yet). Should I worry?

Rod.
Um, probably not, if you haven't noticed any effect yet... You notice that
those machines are no longer in use. Do you think that they stopped using
them because they were not popular? It's because they were dangerous.
People, especially kids, DID have problems with cancer as a result of using
them. People, especially kids, DID have problems with cancer in their feet
as a result of sitting with their feet under or beside the earlier models of
color television. (B/W televisions do not have a metal "mask" and thus do
not have the problem of emitting x-rays) This is not speculation or myth.
It happened, and that's why they recalled those machines, and why they put
x-ray prevention circuitry into modern color televisions.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:37:33 -0400) it happened ".Bill"
I have seen customers there freaking out at the counter when having to pay say 25$ for
replacement of a switch in a 30$ coffee machine.
In your own shop, you still need to get the hours filled, and you cannot charge
anyone 100$ for repairing a 50$ Tandy 'hifi' amp.

I once worked at a Radio Shack repair dept. The shop made almost all its
money on warranty repairs. I had a pair of walkie-talkies (9.95 retail) ]
that I marked "Not worth repair." But on the warranty stuff, like big
receivers and such, we'd put in horrendous bills - sometimes like he said,
$100.00 repair on a $50.00 amp. But in our case it was more like $150.00
repair on a $250.00 amp, but the customer didn't care because it was on
warranty.

I don't even know if Radio Shack even has a repair dept. any more.

Cheers!
Rich
 
K

Kevin G. Rhoads

Jan 1, 1970
0
The outside of the tube is generally earthed using a couple of springs
stretched across it, and it should be obvious if these have become
detached. In fact, I've never seen this happen.

I've seen a lot of different attachment methods. You are thinking here,
obviously, of gross mechanical disconnection. Yes, that would normally
be obvious and, yes, it should also be rare. I agree on both points ...
but have you considered the assumptions between that and taking the
outside of the tube as being at a safe potential?

Consider, if the attachment involves one or more metal-to-metal connections,
and especially if those metals are not the same, then poor connections can develop
at the joints/attachment points/connections by any of several means, such as
oxidation or corrosion. This can lead to a poor connection with NO visible
signs or with signs visible only upon close inspection. (Remember that
abhomination of using aluminum wire for electrical distribution?) If the
equipment has been exposed to moist air for some time, poor connection becomes
quite likely. A TV set left in an unheated or poorly heated summer beach house,
could verly likely have poor grounding connections due to corrosion in such
an environment. We do NOT know the history or envronment of the set the OP
was asking about, let alone other sets that other novices may consider probing,
years hence, after viewing these message out of the Google (or other) archives!

I repeat, you do NOT know that the grounding is good. It is an assumption.
It may be a very good and reasonable assumption, and if you were the one to
be considering probing the innards of the TV set in question, it would not
be an issue. But the OP was clearly a novice, the set in question is known
to have problems, and in such a combination of lack of experience and known
circuit misbehavior, I thought it best to raise all possible safety issues even
if the failure modes leading to unsafety were rather unlikely.

MY personal safety rule for working with HV circuits is to assume that ANY
PART may be at HV until proven, by measurement, to be safe. I will continue
to recommend that approach to others. You can, of course, choose what rules
you wish to use when working on equipment at home. My personal rule was
cemented when I worked at the High Voltage Research Lab at MIT, where even 30kV
is not considered really HV. So it is, perhaps, a bit overcautious for mere
probing in a consumer TV set. But it is better to be more safety conscious than
needed rather than the other way around. (Again, MHOO; YMMV.)
 
A

Andrew VK3BFA

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joseph Hansen said:
You must have got confused. I'm the one who repaired x-ray machines for the
army, but I'm not the one who is insisting that there are no x-ray detection
circuits in a tv.... that's the other guy. I know how to make x-rays, and I
can tell you for a fact that the main difference between a tube designed for
the purpose and a CRT is.... get this,... the voltage potential. That's
right, put a high enough potential on a CRT and it WILL EMIT X-RAYS. And
that's the point of the "x-ray detect" circuitry. It doesn't detect actual
x-rays, it detects the conditions necessary to create them. Because if
those conditions exist, you can count on it that x-rays are being created.

Sorry, you are right - should have put brain in gear before operating
fingers. Insulted the wrong person - oops.....
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:37:33 -0400) it happened ".Bill"
I have seen customers there freaking out at the counter when having to pay say 25$ for
replacement of a switch in a 30$ coffee machine.
In your own shop, you still need to get the hours filled, and you cannot charge
anyone 100$ for repairing a 50$ Tandy 'hifi' amp.

I once worked at a Radio Shack repair dept. The shop made almost all its
money on warranty repairs. I had a pair of walkie-talkies (9.95 retail) ]
that I marked "Not worth repair." But on the warranty stuff, like big
receivers and such, we'd put in horrendous bills - sometimes like he said,
$100.00 repair on a $50.00 amp. But in our case it was more like $150.00
repair on a $250.00 amp, but the customer didn't care because it was on
warranty.

I don't even know if Radio Shack even has a repair dept. any more.

Cheers!
Rich
Maybe that is why the Tandy shops are no more here ;-)?
Last thing I remember about them is that I wrote them and offered to
translate their Dutch catalog into Dutch (think it was Belgian).
hehe, never got a reply to that, they just disappeared.
JP
 
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