elix Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 anyone want to build a one transistor amp for headphones? i mostly to compare notes. rules would be you can do anything but you can have only 1 active device (either a mosfet or bjt), no op-amps allowed. i'd like everone to agree on one type of transistor (something generic) but thier probably not a good chance that everyone has the same types but if so that would be great. :Dwhat do ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 No spec's?? Voltage gain. Distortion. Max output level.It is very difficult to make a one-transistor amplifier for stereo.The transistor's part number doesn't matter. A BC547 is the same as a 2N3904 (except the pins are reversed), and a BDxxx is the same as a TIP31.If the supply voltage is fairly high and a trimpot can be used to fiddle with the bias for a Mosfet then the Mosfet might be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 anything go's, i have two irf530's waiting to be used but i don't want to go it alone :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Another guy in your class recently asked for help to make a headphones amplifier that uses a Mosfet. He actually tried to make it by himself before asking for help.Why don't you give the circuit design a try then we can make siggestions to make it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 will post a schematic in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 ok, i think i understand mosfets when they are in saturation mode but i'm having trouble figuring how to calculate gate voltage (Vgs) to drain current (Id) using G(transconductance ratio). in the schematic i just left generic values, i have a led in the place of r2 and i'm making a plot, but for now this is good enough, bed time ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 ok i have 3 pointsgate voltage current gain Vd4.6 2ma 1.85.2 13ma 2.25.6 25ma 2.45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 gate V to I is almost 1:1, so what is G used for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 using split supplys if i keep the gate at 4 volts above drain it saturates, when gate equals 0~4 volts above drain it stays in linear mode (corresponds to Vgs for irfz44, which is what i'm testing). Id=2k[{(Vgs-Vt)Vds-Vds^2}/2] is how you calculate drain current in linear mode but here's my questions:Vt should be what?is Vds the drop between drain and source? it shows up as one diode drop if so.how do you figure out what k is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 i'll answer one, Vt is the voltage threshold, should be 0 to start off with but if you reverse bias the gate current flows backwards through it :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 A Mosfet turns on with a voltage between its gate and its source. When it is turned on then a current flows fbetween its drain and its source, the amout of current depends on the Mosfet (they are all different, even it they have the same part number), the gate to source voltage, the load resistance and the power supply voltage for the load.Because they are all different, you cannot say that a certain gate voltage produces a certain drain current because only some of them will. You can manually adjust the gate voltage to match your Mosfet or you can use a circuit that automatically adjusts it.The threshold voltage is the gate voltage that barely turns on the Mosfet. An IRFZ44 Mosfet has a drain current of 250uA with a gate voltage of 2V to 4V, each one is different.The max current is 50A to 200A depending on the duration but the IRFZ44 has a minimum drain current of 31A if its gate voltage is 10V.The gate of a Mosfet is a capacitor, it draws no DC current.It is difficult to calculate the drain current because each one is different. The transconductance is shown only for "typical" ones on a graph and varies with drain current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 "IRFZ44 has a minimum drain current of 31A if its gate voltage is 10V"so does it matter what the drain voltage is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 "IRFZ44 has a minimum drain current of 31A if its gate voltage is 10V"so does it matter what the drain voltage is?The datasheet shows the current stays at about 33A if the drain voltage changes from 3V to 25V.It is a "typical" Mosfet so the gate voltage is only 5.5V instead of 10V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 thanks audioguru, i'll now proccede to made an amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 URL=http://imageshack.us]not bad considering i used whatever was laying around, tell me how i can improve it, spacificly how can i get the mosfet in the feedback loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 direct link, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Elix,Your opamp has a very low input impedance of only 1.5k ohms which is too low for many audio sources.The Mosfet has a very high voltage gain at low frequencies but there is no volume control.If negative feedback is added then I think the poor high frequency response of the LM317 regulator will cause oscillation.I found a simple Mosfet headphones driver in Google. It doesn't have voltage gain.http://headwize.com/projects/szeke1_prj.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 i'll be making some changes, keep the comments comming. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I think a class-A power amplifier is a crazy way to heat your house. It gets hot even if it doesn't have a signal.I was wrong before. The Mosfet won't have a high voltage gain because the low resistance of the load is its drain load, not the very high impedance of the LM317 current source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 it's not really supposed to have voltage gain, it's a current amp :)rev1.1:the op-amp is opa37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Your OP37A opamp has a voltage gain of 19k/10k= 1.9 with a low impedance source, and a voltage gain of 19k/(4.7k + 10k)= 1.3 without an input. But the OP37A opamp is de-compensated and is unstable with a voltage gain of less than 5. It will oscillate.I don't think the 150pF capacitor at the input to ground of the opamp is a good idea. it might make the opamp oscillate.The Mosfet has a high gate capacitance that an opamp might not be able to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 i've made some changes again, the amp did oscillate but because the mosfet was actting as an anttena in the low Mhz. new mosfet, some changes. so far no problems from the op-amp, will look at the data sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 "Your OP37A opamp has a voltage gain of 19k/10k= 1.9 with a low impedance source, and a voltage gain of 19k/(4.7k + 10k)= 1.3 without an input. But the OP37A opamp is de-compensated and is unstable with a voltage gain of less than 5. It will oscillate."does it matter since i'm not using a split supply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audioguru Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Don't use an OP37 opamp because it is unstable when it has low gain. Use an "ordinary" opamp that is stable at any amount of gain. Your opamp has a "gain" much less than a piece of wire. Its gain is only 0.033.A single or a split supply has nothing to do with it. The OP37 is made for high gain at high frequencies.The Mosfet has nothing to control its bias voltage so either it is saturated or it is cutoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elix Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 here are the node voltages, i have a vom hooked up to the bottom of r8 and the voltage is hardly moving but something is giving me crazy bass from this regge song, sounds great! 6 ohm load, r1 is 4 ohms, have on a small lead acid battery. i had it as shown and worked great. clean sine waves to 5Mhz, no artifacts to 15Mhz which is the max i can test to.the more current i have the less voltage swing i need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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