Old trackball won't work on modern laptops

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:18:41 GMT, Joerg



Dave Hansen wrote:



Joerg wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


[...]



How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern"
laptop?


Is it Logitech?


It is.





Try their site.


Tried that. That model is long gone from there. I bet if I'd call
they'd suggest to try the Smithsonian museum ...


You might lose that bet. New trackballs are generally just old
trackballs with geehaws added. Usually the new trackball faithfully
emulates the old one until the driver enables the new stuff.


Yes, but it seems that the new generation of mouse driver writers
doesn't remember what RS232 is.




From the main page choose "Downloads", then "Trackballs", then

"Other

Products", then "Trackballs not listed". Choose your operating
system and download. I believe this gets you their "generic" driver
that works with just about anything (anything Logitech, anyway).
Standard 5-byte, 1200 baud protocol with 3 buttons. No new geehaws.


Thanks, done that, tried to install, didn't work. It only supports
newer USB devices.



... It ought to work as an ordinary serial mouse PROVIDED you
INSTALL it.


Well, on the risk of totally embarrassing myself here, how do I do
that in them thar newfangled Windozes?


The download should include instructions.


Only USB it sez. Why is it that electronics get dropped like a hot
potato in less than a decade while I can still go to Kragen's and buy
a spare part for a Studebaker?


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)

I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I
like this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k
and XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?

control panel - add hardware - let it search ...

Did that on both machines. Neither found it.

and if it does not find it do a manual instal...

If I just knew how, respectively where to get or find the needed driver.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:18:41 GMT, Joerg



Dave Hansen wrote:



Joerg wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


[...]



How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Is it Logitech?


It is.





Try their site.


Tried that. That model is long gone from there. I bet if I'd call they'd
suggest to try the Smithsonian museum ...


You might lose that bet. New trackballs are generally just old
trackballs with geehaws added. Usually the new trackball faithfully
emulates the old one until the driver enables the new stuff.


Yes, but it seems that the new generation of mouse driver writers
doesn't remember what RS232 is.




From the main page choose "Downloads", then "Trackballs", then "Other
Products", then "Trackballs not listed". Choose your operating system
and download. I believe this gets you their "generic" driver that works
with just about anything (anything Logitech, anyway). Standard 5-byte,
1200 baud protocol with 3 buttons. No new geehaws.


Thanks, done that, tried to install, didn't work. It only supports newer
USB devices.



... It ought to work as an ordinary serial mouse PROVIDED you INSTALL it.


Well, on the risk of totally embarrassing myself here, how do I do that
in them thar newfangled Windozes?


The download should include instructions.


Only USB it sez. Why is it that electronics get dropped like a hot
potato in less than a decade while I can still go to Kragen's and buy a
spare part for a Studebaker?


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)

I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I like
this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k and
XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?

Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.

Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(

 

[Jim Thompson]

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:18:41 GMT, Joerg



Dave Hansen wrote:



Joerg wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


[...]



How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Is it Logitech?


It is.





Try their site.


Tried that. That model is long gone from there. I bet if I'd call they'd
suggest to try the Smithsonian museum ...


You might lose that bet. New trackballs are generally just old
trackballs with geehaws added. Usually the new trackball faithfully
emulates the old one until the driver enables the new stuff.


Yes, but it seems that the new generation of mouse driver writers
doesn't remember what RS232 is.




From the main page choose "Downloads", then "Trackballs", then "Other
Products", then "Trackballs not listed". Choose your operating system
and download. I believe this gets you their "generic" driver that works
with just about anything (anything Logitech, anyway). Standard 5-byte,
1200 baud protocol with 3 buttons. No new geehaws.


Thanks, done that, tried to install, didn't work. It only supports newer
USB devices.



... It ought to work as an ordinary serial mouse PROVIDED you INSTALL it.


Well, on the risk of totally embarrassing myself here, how do I do that
in them thar newfangled Windozes?


The download should include instructions.


Only USB it sez. Why is it that electronics get dropped like a hot
potato in less than a decade while I can still go to Kragen's and buy a
spare part for a Studebaker?


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)


I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I like
this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k and
XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?

Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.

Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(

Maybe the serial port is a fake ?

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:10:51 GMT, Joerg



Jim Thompson wrote:



On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:18:41 GMT, Joerg




Dave Hansen wrote:




Joerg wrote:




Jim Thompson wrote:


[...]




How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?


Is it Logitech?


It is.






Try their site.


Tried that. That model is long gone from there. I bet if I'd call they'd
suggest to try the Smithsonian museum ...


You might lose that bet. New trackballs are generally just old
trackballs with geehaws added. Usually the new trackball faithfully
emulates the old one until the driver enables the new stuff.


Yes, but it seems that the new generation of mouse driver writers
doesn't remember what RS232 is.





From the main page choose "Downloads", then "Trackballs", then "Other
Products", then "Trackballs not listed". Choose your operating system
and download. I believe this gets you their "generic" driver that works
with just about anything (anything Logitech, anyway). Standard 5-byte,
1200 baud protocol with 3 buttons. No new geehaws.


Thanks, done that, tried to install, didn't work. It only supports newer
USB devices.




... It ought to work as an ordinary serial mouse PROVIDED you INSTALL it.


Well, on the risk of totally embarrassing myself here, how do I do that
in them thar newfangled Windozes?


The download should include instructions.


Only USB it sez. Why is it that electronics get dropped like a hot
potato in less than a decade while I can still go to Kragen's and buy a
spare part for a Studebaker?


Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)


I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I like
this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k and
XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?


Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.

Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(

Maybe the serial port is a fake ?

No

It's done some serial com already.

 

[Jamie]

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

Windows does not detect a serial mouse to well if you already have one
in the PS2 port.
the simplest thing to do is to get a RS-232 9pin to PS2 serial port
adapter.

 

[Joerg]

Windows does not detect a serial mouse to well if you already have one
in the PS2 port.
the simplest thing to do is to get a RS-232 9pin to PS2 serial port
adapter.

Currently there is nothing in the PS2 port. But the laptops, of course,
do have a touchpad.

 

[The Real Andy]

In comp.arch.embedded,

Oh yes, it will see a NMEA device as a mouse. Real treat every time I start
my pc and forget to unplug the GPS, my mouse cursor is all over the place.

You can fix that problem by adding \NoSerialMice to the boot.ini.
Search the MS knowledge base to make sure I am correct (it is
something like that). You can also stop windows enumerating serial
devices in the registry if you are real keen. TAke note though, it is
different from XP and NT, so you have to check the MS knowledge base.

 

[Genome]

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want to
miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my first
car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly also
came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything "new" was
connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP, the other
NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but they are from
the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that you use Windex
on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

Cock

You use Eagle and I know that Eagle has some reverse Polish notation about
the way it forces you to lay out tracks so there is a good chance that the
rest of it is cock as well so I 100% know that since all of Eagle is fucking
broken you only want to use your trackball because you have been forced to
use Eagle because you bought it and have learned how to do it with your
trackball and now there is no way you are going to admit to the fact it is
cock.

DNA

 

[Robert]

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

Maybe the serial port is a fake ?

No

It's done some serial com already.

Do you have "Fast User Switching" turned on?

MS Help mentions that Serial Devices can be used for people with handicaps
and hooked up to Serial Ports but only with turning off that option in
WindowsXP.

Search Help on "SerialKey device"

Robert

 

[Jim Thompson]

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

Maybe the serial port is a fake ?

No

It's done some serial com already.

Do you have "Fast User Switching" turned on?

MS Help mentions that Serial Devices can be used for people with handicaps
and hooked up to Serial Ports but only with turning off that option in
WindowsXP.

Search Help on "SerialKey device"

Robert

There you go, Joerg. Right under both our noses. Thanks, Robert!
Stored away for later use.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joseph Power]

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

(These are probably way beneath you, but sometimes we overlook the simplest
things.)

Have you checked the BIOS settings to be sure COM1: is enabled?

Is there any chance that you could need a 9-pin to 9-pin null modem?

I also vaguely recall from my old DOS days that there were at least 2 alternate
pinouts for the 9-pin port. You should ask Logitech what pinout they used.

hope that helps

Joe

 

[Robert Latest]

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:17:46 GMT,

Then my mouse would work. However, a slight inconvenience would be that
the CAD program the mouse is supposed to be used with would quit working ...

EAGLE works fine under Linux. And if all you want to do is draw schematics
while on the road you can even temporarily use the free edition, and then
do the layout on your paid-for Windows version.

robert

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

Isn't there a simple adapter to convert between serial and PS/2?

AND: Haven't you already wasted $50 of your time trying to be
cheap-ass, when a new track-ball can be had for $49 ?

I thought you would have learned that time is money by now ;-)


I do. But there comes a time when I need a little breather from staring
at a CAD screen or figuring out how to cram umpteen analog functions
into the space of about two quarters. Also, it's not about money, I
like this old mouse and I know it won't give cramps like most others.

BTW, Logitech says on their site that their driver (MouseWare) will not
support serial mice under 2k and XP. Great. But they did say that 2k
and XP have native drivers for that. Question is, who knows where?


Try turning off the machine. Plug in track-ball. Boot up. See if
pointer moves. I'd bet that it will.


Tried that on both machines. No trabajo :-(


Maybe the serial port is a fake ?

No

It's done some serial com already.

Do you have "Fast User Switching" turned on?

Full confession: I don't even know what that is.

MS Help mentions that Serial Devices can be used for people with handicaps
and hooked up to Serial Ports but only with turning off that option in
WindowsXP.

Search Help on "SerialKey device"

Thanks, Robert, will try later today. First I have to repair our pool
sweep. Again. Its freaking expensive hose became brittle (!) and broke.

 

[Joerg]

Cock

You use Eagle and I know that Eagle has some reverse Polish notation about
the way it forces you to lay out tracks so there is a good chance that the
rest of it is cock as well so I 100% know that since all of Eagle is fucking
broken you only want to use your trackball because you have been forced to
use Eagle because you bought it and have learned how to do it with your
trackball and now there is no way you are going to admit to the fact it is
cock.

You can use Eagle via keys, just like OrCad. But it's no fun that way
for larger designs. And I don't do layouts, that's done by someone who
is an expert in that field (which I am not).

 

[Joerg]

(These are probably way beneath you, but sometimes we overlook the simplest
things.)

Have you checked the BIOS settings to be sure COM1: is enabled?

It is. Has worked with other things, piping data out of the logic
analyzer etc.

Is there any chance that you could need a 9-pin to 9-pin null modem?

Hmm, could be.

I also vaguely recall from my old DOS days that there were at least 2 alternate
pinouts for the 9-pin port. You should ask Logitech what pinout they used.

Well, it works on the big PC which supposedly should have the same
pinout on its ports. But that one runs NT4.

 

[[email protected]]

Joerg skrev:

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

any old serial mouse should be recognized by XP, I believe most
serial mouses and such "steal" their power from the serial port, it may
not
be enough with a low power serial port driver in a laptop


-Lasse

 

[Eeyore]

Since I have to do a largish schematic and won't be in the office the
whole time I wanted to connect my trusty old trackball to a laptop. This
old mouse still boasts a, gasp, 9-pin serial connector. But you know how
it is, when you get used to a tool no matter how ancient you don't want
to miss it. Just as I still miss that wonderful Fahrvergnuegen of my
first car...

Tried it on two laptops, a Dell and a new Twinhead that surprisingly
also came with a RS232 serial port. Neither recognized that anything
"new" was connected nor could I find any setup in Windows (one is XP,
the other NT/2000). I am sure I can dig out the old mouse drivers but
they are from the days when Windows were still those glass thingies that
you use Windex on.

How do you get an old serial port mouse working on a "modern" laptop?

Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?

Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Intel...QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Graham

 

[Joerg]

Joerg skrev:




any old serial mouse should be recognized by XP, I believe most
serial mouses and such "steal" their power from the serial port, it may
not
be enough with a low power serial port driver in a laptop

Ah, that could be a clue. Might be time to get the screwdriver and
meter. Or buy a new trackball and try to get used to that but the
"modern" ones seem to be designed for smaller hands. Or maybe I should
quit chopping my own firewood so my hands fit the new trackballs...

 

[Joerg]

Joerg wrote:




Could you fit a PS/2 connector on the existing lead ?

Yes but the new laptop does not have a PS/2 port anymore :-(

Or how about this instead ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Intel...QQihZ013QQcategoryZ116301QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Too small. What I like about my old trackball is that I can roll the
ball and keep the other fingers stretched out. It's much bigger and more
healthy for the joints.

 

[Robert]

Yes but the new laptop does not have a PS/2 port anymore :-(



Too small. What I like about my old trackball is that I can roll the ball
and keep the other fingers stretched out. It's much bigger and more
healthy for the joints.

Have you seen the other large Trackballs?

Kensington makes quite a few.

Here are two of the large ones:
http://us.kensington.com/html/1436.html

And then an even larger one with a 3 inch ball at:
http://www.askergoworks.com/shopexd.asp?id=936

Can't find a website for that one directly but there seems to be a lot of
distributors.

Robert