circuit distortion

[Kevin Weddle]

IC devices have a low amount of noise according to data sheets. But is it a good indicator of signal distortion? Transfer characteristics show to be different depending on the transistor. So does this mean that transfer charateristics are negligible, even though they do operate on small areas of the transfer curve?

 

[audioguru2]

Very old opamps like the 741 and LM324/LM358 have a high noise level.
They also have different but high distortions. The main distortion for the LM324/LM358 is crossover distortion because they are biased for low power. The bias current is so low that it causes crossover distortion. Their amount of distortion is not even spec'd.

Newer opamps like the OPA0134, OPA2134 and OPA4134 are designed to have extremely low distortion of only 0.00008%. The LM4562 has a distortion of only 0.00003%.

Of course the saturation voltage rises if the collector current rises unless the base current is also increased.

 

[Kevin Weddle]

The saturation voltage increases unless the base current increases? What about transistor transfer charcteristics? I've read that FET'S have different transfer characteristics than bipolar transisitors.

 

[Kevin Weddle]

For instance, two different IC amplifers that produce the same result, but have different specifications that overlap. Using a more modern opamp would have lower noise, but operating it near the end of it's specification creates more distortion. Frequency response is the only indicator of performance near the end of a devices specifications.

 

[Hero999]

For some reason my previous post was delete, maybe it was my mistake.

I've retrieved it from the bin.

The saturation voltage increases unless the base current increases?

The saturation voltage will always increase if the collector current is increased even if the base current is increased.

A transistor is saturated when an increase in base current no longer causes an increase in collector current.

What about transistor transfer charcteristics? I've read that FET'S have different transfer characteristics than bipolar transisitors.

MOSFETs are voltage controlled devices.

If a MOSFET saturates, it means that it'll draw a constant current, regardless of the voltage across the source and drain.

If a MOSFET is to be used in a switching application, saturation is a bad thing because the voltage across it will be high leading to a high power dissipation. To use a MOSFET as a switch it needs to be in the on state, i.e. when an increase in gate voltage does not cause an increase in current. There might be a more fancy name for this but I can't remember it. ;D

 

[Hero999]

For instance, two different IC amplifers that produce the same result, but have different specifications that overlap. Using a more modern opamp would have lower noise, but operating it near the end of it's specification creates more distortion. Frequency response is the only indicator of performance near the end of a devices specifications.

What do you mean?

Operating an op-amp with too higher voltage swing at too higher frequency will result in slew rate distortion which is nothing to do with the noise or distortion specifications.

 

[audioguru2]

An opamp has extremely low distortion at low frequencies because its gain is extremely high which results in a lot of negative feedback.

A TL07x opamp has 0.003% distortion at 1kHz with a load of 2k ohms or more, a 30V supply and an output of 6V RMS. Its gain is 1.
Its open-loop gain at 1kHz is 3200 so it has a very high amount of negative feedback.

If the load is less than 2k ohms, if the frequency is higher than 1kHz or if the gain is higher than 1 then the distortion is higher.

 

[Kevin Weddle]

Analog IC's vary in design depending on their function. Different IC's can be used in circuits and provide the same function. You might use a simpler transistor circuit over an opamp for example. Although it's easier to just connect complicated IC's together, it still guess work.

 

[audioguru2]

A transistor has a max open loop voltage gain of about 280 and distortion at full output of about 40%.
If it has negative feedback to reduce its gain and distortion then its gain is 3 and its distortion is 1%. Two transistors with bootstrapping have distortion of 0.015 at lw levels rising to anput 0.1% at high levels.

An opamp has an open loop gain of 200,000 or more at low frequencies. With negative feedback to reduce its gain and distortion its gain is 3 and its distortion is barely measureable (0.001% or less).

It is easy to bias an opamp or transistor so it works properly. Guesswork is not needed.

 

[Kevin Weddle]

I don't believe that the design of an opamp provides for that low of distortion. But it might. Maybe two or three transistors would not provide the gain, impedance, or current capabilities, but it should produce better results because of simplicity.

 

[audioguru2]

The TL071 single, TL072 dual and TL074 quad audio opamps are inexpensive and have distortion of only 0.003%.

The OPA134 single, OPA2134 dual and OPA4134 quad audio opampscost a little more and have distortion of only 0.00008%.

Two or three transistors have much more distortion.

 

[Hero999]

I don't believe that the design of an opamp provides for that low of distortion. But it might. Maybe two or three transistors would not provide the gain, impedance, or current capabilities, but it should produce better results because of simplicity.

Look at the datasheets of the ICs listed by audioguru.

Build an amplifier with a couple of transistors and compare its performance (in terms of distortion) to the op-amp equivalent and see for yourself.

Study op-amp theory and negative feedback and you'll see that if an amplifier with a high gain and some distortion can become a low gain amplifier with virtually no distortion when lots of negative feedback is applied.

 

[Kevin Weddle]

A simple resistor and transistor signal amplifier produces maybe a gain of 50 or 100. An opamp provides high gain, high input impedance, and lower output impedance given the design. A single transistor with good voltage regulation has to be advantageous.

 

[audioguru2]

A simple resistor and transistor signal amplifier produces maybe a gain of 50 or 100.

Yes, but its distortion is as much as 40%.

An opamp provides high gain, high input impedance, and lower output impedance given the design.

Yes, but since its open-loop gain at 1kHz is as much as 10,000 times, its distortion is extremely low.

A single transistor with good voltage regulation has to be advantageous.

Nope. The transistor produces severe distortion and the opamp doesn't.

Look at what a single transistor does to a sine-wave:View attachment 40760

 

[Kevin Weddle]

That amount of distortion must be due to the large output voltage swing. An opamp circuit is also capable of high distortion, but has very low distortion when operated within it's recommended but very narrow limits. Many amplfiers share some common design, but they are tailored for different applications.

I've seen designs which utilize single transistor amplifers cascaded together. But I think their main purpose was for filtering and not so much for amplification.

 

[audioguru2]

The transistor has high distortion because it is controlled by current but the input is a low impedance voltage. Then its output is exponential. Also, the transistor is running wide open with no negative feedback. The distortion is about 3% when the transistor has lots of negative feedback but then of course its voltage gain is only 1 to 4.

An opamp with negative feedback has extremely low distortion until its output hits the power supply voltages which is not a narrow range.

 

[Hero999]

So you think more transistors must mean more distortion?

Here's an example of a circuit which proves your theory to be wrong.

In the first circuit there's three separate stages of voltage amplification, Q1 and Q2 just provide current amplification to drive R4, Q3 & Q4, Q6 & Q7, are Darlington pairs which have lots of gain, Q5 doesn't have much gain and just acts as an inverter.

R5 to R7 help bias the transistors and provide negative feedback, C3 is a phase compensation capacitor which prevents oscillation.

Notice how the output is a pretty clean and undistorted sinewave?

In the second circuit, Q5 to Q7 have been removed so the closed loop gain is much lower. The cross-over distortion can be clearly seen on the output.

This output stage is biased in class B which yields a low standby current but is very non-linear.

The first circuit has a very high open loop gain and lots of negative feedback which dramatically reduces the distortion.

The second circuit has a much lower open loop gain and much less negative feedback so the output remains very distorted.

Paste the text between the code tags into a text editor, save with a .asc extension, open it using LTSpice and see for yourself.

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