Compass Software

[Joe Lucia]

Once again, you demonstrate a lack of knowledge when it comes to Ademco

panels. If the CSID of the downloading computer doesn't match the CSID in
the panel, it doesn't matter if you have the installer code or not. The
panel will refuse to connect.

When I WAS downloading a lot of ademco panels, I understood that if you
default the CSID in the panel or manually enter all F's, then Anyones
software can perform an initial download (which will set the panel CSID
to the softwares CSID preventing any else from downloading it). Once
in installer mode, there is a command to "Initialize Download ID".
Does that not mean what it says?

I am definitely not familiar with all panels defaults and available, I
didn't intend to make a general statements about "all" panels. I just
know that with this particular wireless package (a sealed box direct
from Ademco), even an "experienced" tech would have had trouble
programming the wireless zones without the software (of course a REAL
professional would have a spare alpha keypad in the truck to program
the system, then change it out with the non-alpha keypad that came in
the box, or, have someone in the office to program it for them).

I guess I just have an Open Source mentality which doesn't belong here
(me being a software developer and all). Open Source, not Open Access.
I feel like the individual who has the technical skills and no money
to spend on a professional installer, should have the opportunity to
program their systems themselves. Unless we are assuming someone who
doesn't have the money also doesn't have the technical skills. I
suppose they need to find a system that either allows programming
software to the end-use, or figure out the keypad programming. If
neither of those work for them, then they have a nice big paper-weight
and have no right to use that equipment to help provide them a sense of
security (other then throwing it at the burglar). Enabling the DIY
just isn't part of Honeywells business plan and we should respect that
as such. These panels were not intended to be sold to end-users or
DIY's. They are to be sold to professionals who know how to program
them (with or without the software).

I think you're barkin' up the wrong tree there bud... I'm not the one that
provided the info. No alarm professional worth his salt would do that
either.

O c'mon, it's a public post, I wasn't implying you did, nor do I expect
you would based on your views here. It was to Anyone who might think
it is OK to do so. Apparently there is only ONE person here who really
thinks it OK to give it out. And it's NOT YOU, to make that clear

 

[Joe Lucia]

Okay now thats stretching it, because you can give anyone your login that

means THEY are not secure? How stupid

Yes, if more then one person has the same username/password, then there
is potential for abuse because you have now lost control as to who that
other person thinks is competent enough to have the username/password,
and so on, which we have seen here today. Someone gave it to someone
who gave it to someone who posted it here for everyone.

And the DEALER software used by a DEALER is supposed to program your system
not you

Ideally. A professionals point-of-view is most always going to be
"leave it to a professional" but some people don't have that luxury and
would like to Become a professional on their own system on their own
time.

Yes, the manual indicates that you must have an alpha keypad to program
the zones using the Menu Mode. But when reading I kept getting the
impression there was a way to program them without using Menu Mode
since I didn't have an alpha keypad.

Exactly what part of the installation manual gave you that impression?

It indicated there is Expert Programming mode or Menu Mode. I assumed
Expert Mode meant no menu prompts. But earlier in the manual it does
say "you must use a 2-line alpha display keypad". Unfortunately, when
purchased, that was in the box and since I haven't done them before, I
had no way of knowing that.

And I'm glad you aren't, god knows how well you programmed the panel

Now now, you have no idea of my competence level in this area to be
making comments like that. A lack of experience doesn't imply the lack
of competence required to figure it out. Being on the Monitoring end
of things I believe I've programmed my own system much better then most
of the system I see thrown in every day by "professionals". I've
talked installers and technicians through programming panels because
they didn't understand them. I've interpreted screwed-up codes and
formats to explain to them what they programmed wrong. Granted
field-for-field I don't know how Every panel deals with different
issues, but I have a full understand as to how and why they work. Just
because I don't already know, without referring to and getting to know
the manual, doesn't ipmly a badly programmed system. You as a
"professional" I'm sure can relate to running into an old panel that
you've had no experience with, but you got it wo work. Albeit, god
know how well you did

 

[Frank Olson]

When I WAS downloading a lot of ademco panels, I understood that if you
default the CSID in the panel or manually enter all F's, then Anyones
software can perform an initial download (which will set the panel CSID
to the softwares CSID preventing any else from downloading it). Once
in installer mode, there is a command to "Initialize Download ID".
Does that not mean what it says?

Yes, but in order to do so you must default the panel at the keypad. If the
downloading agency has locked it from local programming there's no way
you're going to gain access to it with another computer that's using Compass
*unless* they (by some miracle) match the CSID.

I am definitely not familiar with all panels defaults and available, I
didn't intend to make a general statements about "all" panels. I just
know that with this particular wireless package (a sealed box direct
from Ademco), even an "experienced" tech would have had trouble
programming the wireless zones without the software (of course a REAL
professional would have a spare alpha keypad in the truck to program
the system, then change it out with the non-alpha keypad that came in
the box, or, have someone in the office to program it for them).
Check!!



I guess I just have an Open Source mentality which doesn't belong here
(me being a software developer and all). Open Source, not Open Access.
I feel like the individual who has the technical skills and no money
to spend on a professional installer, should have the opportunity to
program their systems themselves.

I've got no problem with that either. As long as the system remains "local"
and isn't monitored. The individual I won't mention used to sell
monitoring. He'd provide anyone with a valid credit card the information
necessary to program their own panel to call his third party central
station. That facility was under the mistaken (I'm sure) impression that
their *Dealer* was actually doing the programming. I'm almost certain if
they new the end user had access to installer level programming, they'd have
"kaniptions".

Unless we are assuming someone who
doesn't have the money also doesn't have the technical skills.

He can "acquire" all the technical skills he needs in just "about two hours"
on the phone with a certain individual that used to post here but whose name
I won't mention.

I
suppose they need to find a system that either allows programming
software to the end-use, or figure out the keypad programming. If
neither of those work for them, then they have a nice big paper-weight
and have no right to use that equipment to help provide them a sense of
security (other then throwing it at the burglar). Enabling the DIY
just isn't part of Honeywells business plan and we should respect that
as such. These panels were not intended to be sold to end-users or
DIY's. They are to be sold to professionals who know how to program
them (with or without the software).

I agree to a certain extent. The DIY market (in the US at least) is *huge*.
Heck, I've even installed a sink all by myself (and I'm in Canada). There
are certain things that individuals gifted with some mechanical or technical
expertise can do, and others things that they can't.

O c'mon, it's a public post, I wasn't implying you did, nor do I expect
you would based on your views here. It was to Anyone who might think
it is OK to do so. Apparently there is only ONE person here who really
thinks it OK to give it out. And it's NOT YOU, to make that clear

Glad we got that straight!! ;-)

 

[Crash Gordon]

Doesn't Jim remember how to program panels anymore? or wouldn't he help ya.
Does he still keep you locked in that little room during the day?


|> Okay now thats stretching it, because you can give anyone your login that
| > means THEY are not secure? How stupid
|
| Yes, if more then one person has the same username/password, then there
| is potential for abuse because you have now lost control as to who that
| other person thinks is competent enough to have the username/password,
| and so on, which we have seen here today. Someone gave it to someone
| who gave it to someone who posted it here for everyone.
|
|
| > And the DEALER software used by a DEALER is supposed to program your
system
| > not you
|
| Ideally. A professionals point-of-view is most always going to be
| "leave it to a professional" but some people don't have that luxury and
| would like to Become a professional on their own system on their own
| time.
|
| > Yes, the manual indicates that you must have an alpha keypad to program
| > the zones using the Menu Mode. But when reading I kept getting the
| > impression there was a way to program them without using Menu Mode
| > since I didn't have an alpha keypad.
|
| > Exactly what part of the installation manual gave you that impression?
|
| It indicated there is Expert Programming mode or Menu Mode. I assumed
| Expert Mode meant no menu prompts. But earlier in the manual it does
| say "you must use a 2-line alpha display keypad". Unfortunately, when
| purchased, that was in the box and since I haven't done them before, I
| had no way of knowing that.
|
| > And I'm glad you aren't, god knows how well you programmed the panel
|
| Now now, you have no idea of my competence level in this area to be
| making comments like that. A lack of experience doesn't imply the lack
| of competence required to figure it out. Being on the Monitoring end
| of things I believe I've programmed my own system much better then most
| of the system I see thrown in every day by "professionals". I've
| talked installers and technicians through programming panels because
| they didn't understand them. I've interpreted screwed-up codes and
| formats to explain to them what they programmed wrong. Granted
| field-for-field I don't know how Every panel deals with different
| issues, but I have a full understand as to how and why they work. Just
| because I don't already know, without referring to and getting to know
| the manual, doesn't ipmly a badly programmed system. You as a
| "professional" I'm sure can relate to running into an old panel that
| you've had no experience with, but you got it wo work. Albeit, god
| know how well you did
|

 

[[email protected]]

Geez, this topic still going?

Compass software is unprofessional and prehistoric.

Crayola could do a better job with the Compass web site.

It does the job, but so does a haitian (or mexican if you live in the
US)

Do you use a Haitian or Mexican to install your alarm systems for your
clients? (with this I mean illegal aliens, not being racist, just
telling it like it is)

If so you would not be in business long

Okay so this back on topic yet?

 

[Mark Leuck]

Geez, this topic still going?

Compass software is unprofessional and prehistoric.

Unprofessional no but prehistoric yes since it will still run in Windows 3.1

 

[[email protected]]

well foe real, but that it is prehistoric and it is owned by cunnywell,
means it is unprofessional, seeing that a huge company like cunnywell
cant come up with something better yet. Its in the top 10 of one of
the worst software proggys ive ever used.....

 

[Mark Leuck]

well foe real, but that it is prehistoric and it is owned by cunnywell,
means it is unprofessional, seeing that a huge company like cunnywell
cant come up with something better yet. Its in the top 10 of one of
the worst software proggys ive ever used.....

Each to his own, overall it's the best out there in my opinion and Honeywell
should have a new version out at the end of this year

 

[[email protected]]

he he he ... yep best for downloading an alarm panel, but i know you
know they could do at least 80% better??

 

[Joe Lucia]

Doesn't Jim remember how to program panels anymore? or wouldn't he help ya.

Does he still keep you locked in that little room during the day?

No one here programs panels anymore, we leave it up to the Dealers.
Kay and I were usually downloading them from the office for Jim when he
was installing them (over 15 years ago now).

 

[Joe Lucia]

Googles QOTD:

When men are pure, laws are useless; when men are corrupt, laws are
broken.

 

[Crash Gordon]

I had a feeling it musta been Kay...Jim was too busy climbing that rock
wall.

))


|> Doesn't Jim remember how to program panels anymore? or wouldn't he help
ya.
| > Does he still keep you locked in that little room during the day?
|
| No one here programs panels anymore, we leave it up to the Dealers.
| Kay and I were usually downloading them from the office for Jim when he
| was installing them (over 15 years ago now).
|
|

 

[Mark Leuck]

he he he ... yep best for downloading an alarm panel, but i know you
know they could do at least 80% better??

And thats all it really has to do.

Here's the problem, as a company (big or small) do you put a large amount of
time and money into software development for a downloading package that will
only be used by less than 5% of alarm installers? While many here do
download panels most do not which is why the stuff we use would be
considered ancient by any Windows programmer.

BTW: This scenario isn't something I dreamed up, it came from several
manufacturers

 

[Crash Gordon]

Probably because a lot of companies like going out on service calls so they
can charge the client for something simple. I'm too lazy, or maybe too
ethical, to charge someone for a simple zone change or code change or delay
time change..whatever, if I can do it from here.

I DO hope when they redo Compass that it's more homogenious instead of
different "modules" for different manufacturer's panels they've
acquired...and they throughly test it before releasing - I HATE being the
beta test dummy.




|
| | > he he he ... yep best for downloading an alarm panel, but i know you
| > know they could do at least 80% better??
|
| And thats all it really has to do.
|
| Here's the problem, as a company (big or small) do you put a large amount
of
| time and money into software development for a downloading package that
will
| only be used by less than 5% of alarm installers? While many here do
| download panels most do not which is why the stuff we use would be
| considered ancient by any Windows programmer.
|
| BTW: This scenario isn't something I dreamed up, it came from several
| manufacturers
|
|
|

 

[Mark Leuck]

Probably because a lot of companies like going out on service calls so they
can charge the client for something simple. I'm too lazy, or maybe too
ethical, to charge someone for a simple zone change or code change or delay
time change..whatever, if I can do it from here.

I DO hope when they redo Compass that it's more homogenious instead of
different "modules" for different manufacturer's panels they've
acquired...and they throughly test it before releasing - I HATE being the
beta test dummy.

I don't think you will ever see them get around the "module" stuff since
that makes it easy to add panels, Compass is being developed in India these
days so who knows what they will come up with but if I had to guess it'll
look and act identical but be 32-bit capable.

As far as why not many download that partly comes from the fact many dealers
will send a tech because thats what they've always done and also many people
just aren't computer literate.

 

[Guest]

When I WAS downloading a lot of ademco panels, I understood that if you
default the CSID in the panel or manually enter all F's, then Anyones
software can perform an initial download (which will set the panel CSID
to the softwares CSID preventing any else from downloading it). Once
in installer mode, there is a command to "Initialize Download ID".
Does that not mean what it says?

NO, you cannot default the CSID at the keypad - only the central station can
do it.

 

[[email protected]]

Come on, they cant spare a couple programmers on salary to take care of
that, i mean they already have all the functions and subs in the code,
all they have to do is make a better GUI, and clean up the existing
code some more ... doesnt take much. If a 1 man company can do it, im
sure a huge conglomarate like cunnywell can ..

Basically what they did is just buy the company and inherit the
software, but they dont want to support it, if they were supporting it,
they would upgrade the code and provide updates.

 

[Mark Leuck]

NO, you cannot default the CSID at the keypad - only the central station can
do it.

Sure you can on any Ademco panel that I know of

 

[Crash Gordon]

If keypad programming is not locked out sure you can...on the newer panels
*96 wipes the CSID.


|
| > When I WAS downloading a lot of ademco panels, I understood that if you
| > default the CSID in the panel or manually enter all F's, then Anyones
| > software can perform an initial download (which will set the panel CSID
| > to the softwares CSID preventing any else from downloading it). Once
| > in installer mode, there is a command to "Initialize Download ID".
| > Does that not mean what it says?
|
| NO, you cannot default the CSID at the keypad - only the central station
can
| do it.
|
|
|
|