New Plug-in Electric Car Company

[Rob Mitchell]

| > Freelance Embedded Systems Engineer wrote:
| >>Rob Mitchellwrote:
| >>> A new American Made plug in electric car
| >>>http://www.fundable.com/groupactions/groupaction.2008-09-05.758151719...
| >>>
| >>> Here is an opportunity to contribute to American independance from
| >>> foriegn oil. It's time American designed and built an all electric
| >>> vehicle that runs off of inexpensive American plug -in electric power.
| >>> You can show your support with a contribution as small as $10 dollars.
| >>> Become one of the first to support our future in a tangible way.
| >>
| >> Why would I contribute to anything that does not identify the people
| >> involved; or their concept or business plan; location; or issuing
| >> shares for that matter.  Smells of a scam.
| >
| > Here's a real electric car company:
| >
| >http://hybrids-plus.com/
|
| Here's the real deal - 220 miles per charge
|http://www.teslamotors.com/
|
I really like this car, except for the $110k price tag

Cheers

If you really invested a substantial amount of money I am sure you
would be given more information. What is being offered is the chance
to give up one trip to McDonalds in order to support a cause. You dont
spend a dime unless the total amount requested is pledged. But people
said the same thing about Henry Ford.
Tesla has raised millions of dollars but only have one car.. a
prototype! DGA is only looking for seed money to develop a prototype.
I imagine then they will go after the big money nad the proforma cash
flow would be offered then to serious investors.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Sure the price will drop as they automate the assembly of the vehicle.
That's what gets me about regular car prices, alot of the car is put
together by machines these days. Yet the prices don't seem to come down
much.

That's because so many extras are added on to keep the price, and
profits, high. I've occasionally wondered what my old Capri 2.0L would
cost these days. No central locking, no power steering, no powered
windows, no aircon, no super surround sound hifi, simple engine, 37mpg etc.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

If you really invested a substantial amount of money I am sure you
would be given more information. What is being offered is the chance
to give up one trip to McDonalds in order to support a cause. You dont
spend a dime unless the total amount requested is pledged. But people
said the same thing about Henry Ford.
Tesla has raised millions of dollars but only have one car.. a
prototype! DGA is only looking for seed money to develop a prototype.
I imagine then they will go after the big money nad the proforma cash
flow would be offered then to serious investors.

It doesn't take big bucks to do useful stuff
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/delorean/

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Would it meet today's safety standard for a new vehicle?

No idea.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[TheM]

Not necessarily. Given that oil is a finite resource, and it is already
more expensive to get atit (since most of the "easy oil" has already been
gotten), teh gasoline will probably go to other uses, such as military
vehicles, or perhaps to run generators and cars if very cold climates.

Prices have fallen significantly lately, there's plenty of oil under the
melting ice. Oil is going to be around for a while.

Again, not necessarily - the US has a lot of natural gas,which can be used
to generate electricity; is solar panel production is doen on a larger
scale, those will become cheaper.

Yes, and gas is unlike oil an infinite resource? The solar thing is still a fairytail.

Like they "need" 2-ton SUVs?

They need a safe family car, not a 2-seat plastic roadster with zero luggage space.

M

 

[Eeyore]

This year there were only 2 days where I drove more than 150 miles -
holidays. I'd hire a petrol car for the week.

Hiring can be damn expensive. Plus you have to adapt to an unfamiliar car.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

http://www.a123systems.com/
http://www.a123systems.com/#/technology/power/

I see no detail. What capacity battery did you have in mind for a 200 mile
range ?

For my money the advanced PHEV (series) is going to be the winner hands
down. It combines the best of everything.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

The Segways indicate that it will be very high price.

To me it rather more indicates that GM is run by Americans who can't walk. The Segways would be a joke in
Europe which is Opel's main market.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote

Yup, IIRC it pretty much just serves to "top off" the battery.

Indeed so and only when the car's exceeded its commuting range, although it
also might be useful for winter warmth, somthing often forgotten by fans of
'pure' EVs.

So I guess it's basically just spinning a copper coil and magnet rotor to
create the charge...? (I dunno - Newbie/Learner here, not an EE )

A large alternator. I suspect for many application the ICE could be as small as
500cc. After all, cruising takes surpisingly little power. As little as 10kW
perhaps in a compact car.

Cool link

THe comments are "interesting" - not one person suggested doing what some
people are already doing - setting up a solar panel to generate electricity
for the electric car (and the rest going towards powering the house).

OH NO. Not solar. The price of solar electricity combined with the insolation
of Northern Europe or USA is such a joke that it's simply money thrown away.
See the thread "Sizing off-grid systems in Ireland" in alt.solar.voltaic for
some worked calculations. It'll turn your blood cold.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

At any rate, the article did not say that the Segways are *incldued*, just
that there is a space, with a charging outlet, for 2 of them. IMO, tho',
that ought to be optional. AlthoughI suppose someone will come up withthe
idea of making an emergency diesel-fuel can that will fit into the space

That idea had crossed my mind already. There's so much space they take up, you
could probably give it a 1000 mile range.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I always love that fable.

They won't as far as the Tesla car is concerned.
But there's no inherent reason why a practical electric car should cost
any more than a normal one.

The cost of the battery.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

It still seems like a foot-dragging gimmick designed to test the waters
and keep the regulators at bay.

What's 'foot-dragging' about it ? It's fabulously innovative.

Why is it so difficult to replace the engine with an electric motor and
the fuel tank with (say) 200kg of LiFeP battery (about 20 kWh) in a
small car for a range of around 150km?

90 miles ? That wouldn't even have done my commute to Cambridge.

That covers the vast majority of
journeys most people make in a day.

But people with one car simply don't want that. End of story.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

[email protected] says...

Too funny. Plug-in hybrids do seem to get better mileage but nobody
looks at the offset which is higher usage rates of electricity.

Welll .... if that electricity comes from carbon or hydrocarbon sources then
there's no benefit at all.

Better start building those new generation nukes ! Biggest order so far for
the French firm Areva which I reckon to be the market leader ? CHINA !
Something like 6 units on order there alone. India's building some too.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Sure the price will drop as they automate the assembly of the vehicle.

He meant the batteries I think.

That's what gets me about regular car prices, alot of the car is put
together by machines these days. Yet the prices don't seem to come down
much.

Are you kidding ? Take inflation into account and they've dropped considerably.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Eeyore wrote

Rent-a-gen; a small trailer with a generator.

Don't be so utterly ridiculous. Most people have no idea how to deal with a
trailer and will probably crash. In the UK it will limit their motorway speed
to 50 mph IIRC.

It's a totally fatuous idea.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

If electric car makes a significant dent into oil consumption, oil prices will drop

Bwahahahahhahahahahaa !

making them a less sensible option.

When millions of electric cars hit the road, the cost of electricity will rise accordingly
due to lack of supply. Can't build all those nukes over night.

Night of course is exactly when they will usually recharge when there is massive spare capacity on the grid.

Add a wireless ethernet connection and your car even automatically recharge to get the best electricity rate.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

What is being offered is the chance
to give up one trip to McDonalds in order to support a cause.

But who would want to go to McDonalds ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

It doesn't take big bucks to do useful stuff
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/delorean/

When the labour's free sure it doesn't.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Personally,
I'd like an electric that can be both plugged in, and had a small "top-off"
generator included (biodiesel-capable might be nice). THe point isn't only
daily driving, but also, distance driving. Like, if I decide to take a trip
down to Moody Gardens - that'd be longer than 150km to get there and come
back. "20 miles on a charge" just wouldn't do it, especially if on ehas to
drive more than 10 likes to work, and there is no recharger where on ehas to
park when one gts there.

Yes you need a PHEV which is what GM at least is developing seriously.

The issue of recharging points is an EXTREMELY valid one too. Who's going to pay
for them and who's going to stop vandals from trashing them ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

the US has a lot of natural gas,which can be used
to generate electricity

Which will offer ZERO CO2 emissions benefit.

is solar panel production is doen on a larger
scale, those will become cheaper.

Bwahahahahhaahahaaaaa ! Do you think they only just invented them ? And it IS
done on a large scale !

PV solar is INSANELY expensive by design. Only Nanosolar are claiming to offer
anything better but they won't release data. Smells of something nasty to me.

Graham