Small outhouse frost free?

[Moojundai]

I've been handed a projekt to solve if possible, and I'd love some feedback
from you folks to see if youre experience could help me on the way.

Problem:
A small highly insulated outhouse needs to be keept frost free in short
bursts of up to 15 degrees of frost.
The system must if possible be made by 12v renewable energy alone.

Existing parts:
1) Rutland 915 wind generator (200W)

I thought about mounting the wind generator on a 8 metre pole beside the
outhouse, connected to a deep cycle battery inside the outhouse.

How to build a 12V heat souce that doesn't use to much power (W)?
My idea was to use a series of 20-55W bulbs to create heat in a insulated
box, and create a draught by mounting a small ventilator from a computer
(cooler from a processor or power supply unit).
This system would be powered through a "powerguard", that would "cut" the
power before the battery is empty, as I expect running the system at <9V
would not do much good, and that it's better to conserve power a bit than
run the system into the ground (0V) where the bulbs only would glow a bit
without giving heat.

Would it be best to dig holed tubes into some sand, and let the warm air
seep throu the sand, and let the sand keep the temperature for longer time
than the air alone?

I hope to get some feedback from you guys!

 

[SQLit]

I've been handed a projekt to solve if possible, and I'd love some feedback
from you folks to see if youre experience could help me on the way.

Problem:
A small highly insulated outhouse needs to be keept frost free in short
bursts of up to 15 degrees of frost.
The system must if possible be made by 12v renewable energy alone.

Existing parts:
1) Rutland 915 wind generator (200W)

I thought about mounting the wind generator on a 8 metre pole beside the
outhouse, connected to a deep cycle battery inside the outhouse.

How to build a 12V heat souce that doesn't use to much power (W)?
My idea was to use a series of 20-55W bulbs to create heat in a insulated
box, and create a draught by mounting a small ventilator from a computer
(cooler from a processor or power supply unit).
This system would be powered through a "powerguard", that would "cut" the
power before the battery is empty, as I expect running the system at <9V
would not do much good, and that it's better to conserve power a bit than
run the system into the ground (0V) where the bulbs only would glow a bit
without giving heat.

Would it be best to dig holed tubes into some sand, and let the warm air
seep throu the sand, and let the sand keep the temperature for longer time
than the air alone?

I hope to get some feedback from you guys!

At 12 volts I would consider a kerosene heater vented of course. I have good
expenses with Kerosun through the wall heaters. A propane camp heater, use
only when needed. Try jc Whitney auto parts for a 12 v car heater/
defroster. Only problem with this is will drain your batteries in a heart
beat if you leave it on. Interesting problem I will think on it.

How about a used oil heater. You could recycle your motor oil and have heat
as a by product.

 

[Moojundai]

At 12 volts I would consider a kerosene heater vented of course. I have good
expenses with Kerosun through the wall heaters. A propane camp heater, use
only when needed. Try jc Whitney auto parts for a 12 v car heater/
defroster. Only problem with this is will drain your batteries in a heart
beat if you leave it on. Interesting problem I will think on it.

How about a used oil heater. You could recycle your motor oil and have heat
as a by product.

Fire is always a good source for heat, but as the outhouse is unattended, I
don't think they would let it be an option.

So I'm afraid that we are back with 12v

 

[SQLit]

Fire is always a good source for heat, but as the outhouse is unattended, I
don't think they would let it be an option.

So I'm afraid that we are back with 12v

point of use was my intention. On when using the facility off the rest of
the time.

 

[Graig Pearen]

I've been handed a projekt to solve if possible, and I'd love some feedback
from you folks to see if youre experience could help me on the way.

Problem:
A small highly insulated outhouse needs to be keept frost free in short
bursts of up to 15 degrees of frost.
The system must if possible be made by 12v renewable energy alone.

Existing parts:
1) Rutland 915 wind generator (200W)

I thought about mounting the wind generator on a 8 metre pole beside the
outhouse, connected to a deep cycle battery inside the outhouse.

How to build a 12V heat souce that doesn't use to much power (W)?
My idea was to use a series of 20-55W bulbs to create heat in a insulated
box, and create a draught by mounting a small ventilator from a computer
(cooler from a processor or power supply unit).
This system would be powered through a "powerguard", that would "cut" the
power before the battery is empty, as I expect running the system at <9V
would not do much good, and that it's better to conserve power a bit than
run the system into the ground (0V) where the bulbs only would glow a bit
without giving heat.

Would it be best to dig holed tubes into some sand, and let the warm air
seep throu the sand, and let the sand keep the temperature for longer time
than the air alone?

I hope to get some feedback from you guys!

Since your power resource is a 200 watt wind turbine, 200 watts is the most heat that you have
available. There is NOTHING that you can do to magically multiply it and 200 watts will do little to
warm the outhouse. So . . . Use the 12 volt power to control another heat source:

1- For a petroleum answer, and if money is no object, you could use a propane fireplace with or
without electronic controls. They're expensive though.

2- You could use a long pipe buried below the frost line (preferably deeper) and a 12v fan to
circulate the air from the outhouse, through the pipe, and back into the outhouse. It won't be warm,
but it should be above freezing.

3- Use the sun. Build a solar air collector on the side of the outhouse. That should take care of
daytime heating and you could store excess heat in buckets of water.

4- Install a padded vinyl toilet seat like the ones made for indoor use on a flush toilet. They warm
up very fast when you sit on them and in just a few seconds, you will be comfortable as long as your
pants aren't around your ankles.

5- Just accept it. -15 isn't all that cold. The thought of sitting on a cold toilet seat at that
temperature is worse than the doing. Mind over matter and all that. I've used an outhouse at -27c. I
didn't like it one little bit - but - I survived

Let us know what you come up with and well how it works.

Graig

 

[Bughunter]

There are some advantages to a cold out-house. Less stink.

I'd focus on heating the seat, which is source of most discomfort.

Maybe the resistance heaters that they use in leather seats of automobiles.

 

[Dale Farmer]

I've been handed a projekt to solve if possible, and I'd love some feedback
from you folks to see if youre experience could help me on the way.

Problem:
A small highly insulated outhouse needs to be keept frost free in short
bursts of up to 15 degrees of frost.
The system must if possible be made by 12v renewable energy alone.

Existing parts:
1) Rutland 915 wind generator (200W)

Run a heat pump from the shit tank. Fermenting stuff makes heat
and methane. Burn methane for additional heat if you can find
a way? ( this also controls odors ) Seal the shit tank from the
people tank if you can.

--Dale

 

[Dale Farmer]

There are some advantages to a cold out-house. Less stink.

I'd focus on heating the seat, which is source of most discomfort.

Maybe the resistance heaters that they use in leather seats of automobiles.

If your goal is to keep the users ass from getting too uncomfortable when
they sit down, then just put in a wooden seat. Keep a lid over it so that
the frost doesn't form on the people contact surface. It warms up after
a second or two to a tolerable temperature. If the tank is vented out
elsewhere, then less frost will form around the opening.


--Dale

 

[Graham Parkinson]

I recall the three tent winter exploration camp in the NWT of Canada. Guy
lines to the outhouse so you wouldn't get lost in the whiteouts and wander
off into the laps of the polar bears. 3" of hoar frost inside and out.
Total comfort inside at -50 degrees (C or F whats the diff?) due to the seat
made of 3" thick blue styrofoam SM. Never a problem with smell .... Door
finally blew off and disappeared one day.

- Graham

 

[Gordon Richmond]

I too, have recollections of using an outhouse at -50°
Twas in Sturgeon Lake, Ontario, though, not NWT. It had an inch-thich
sheet of that cheap pellety-looking styrofoam on the seat, and the
seat was, in fact, quite comfortable.

I wouldn't bother with trying to heat an outhouse. Insulate it well,
and seal it up well against drafts, with provisions for venting it in
summer of course.

All things considered, outhouses are more appealing in winter.

If you do need heat, and light, just bring a Coleman gasoline lantern
into the outhouse with you. They throw off a lot of heat. Some
ventilation should be provided, of course.

Gordon Richmond

 

[No One]

automobiles.

If your goal is to keep the users ass from getting too uncomfortable when
they sit down, then just put in a wooden seat. Keep a lid over it so that
the frost doesn't form on the people contact surface. It warms up after
a second or two to a tolerable temperature. If the tank is vented out
elsewhere, then less frost will form around the opening.

You people have clearly never used an outhouse much. In the winter you keep
the seat and the paper hanging on a nail near the stove in the house. When
needed you take the seat and the paper out with you. When finished you
bring it back in. In the summer you hang a gas mask on the nail. The word
intense pops in to mind from those memories

 

[Dale Farmer]

You people have clearly never used an outhouse much. In the winter you keep
the seat and the paper hanging on a nail near the stove in the house. When
needed you take the seat and the paper out with you. When finished you
bring it back in. In the summer you hang a gas mask on the nail. The word
intense pops in to mind from those memories

My use of outhouses was military field latrines, so when they started to get

bad, we would just fill it in and move on. And since we often didn't have a
stove to hang a seat next to, that didn't occur to me. As a child, there was
an "outhouse" in the barn, and it just dropped into the same room below that
all the dung and stable sweepings were dumped into. This was mined out
and spread over the hay fields.

--Dale

 

[No One]

My use of outhouses was military field latrines, so when they started

to get

No heaters in those either. FYI, they use port-a-potties on FX today. No
matter how well cammo'ed the unit is there's always a big blue box next to
it. Makes me smile ever time I see it. Hum. . .maybe there's business op
there, cammo port-a-potties. . .

bad, we would just fill it in and move on. And since we often didn't have a
stove to hang a seat next to, that didn't occur to me. As a child, there was
an "outhouse" in the barn, and it just dropped into the same room below that
all the dung and stable sweepings were dumped into. This was mined out
and spread over the hay fields.

Not a real good thing to do. Human waste has a lot more potential to spread
disease than animal waste. But we used to do a lot of things that weren't
the smartest things.

 

[Bob Adkins]

I've been handed a projekt to solve if possible, and I'd love some feedback
from you folks to see if youre experience could help me on the way.

What do you call "small"?

If the out house is extremely well sealed and insulated and really small,
200W could easily keep the temperature above freezing. If the outdoor temp
doesn't often stay below freezing around the clock, it would be QED.

Raising the temperature from -15F to 33F in a 6'x6'x8' room does not take
much power. Just a 12v 100W fan may be all you need. A 200w windmill
charging the batteries several hours a day can produce some real heat. The
fan blowing on the battery and charge controller can distribute the heat.



Bob

 

[Dale Farmer]

to get

No heaters in those either. FYI, they use port-a-potties on FX today. No
matter how well cammo'ed the unit is there's always a big blue box next to
it. Makes me smile ever time I see it. Hum. . .maybe there's business op
there, cammo port-a-potties. . .

IN training areas, they ran into problems with digging up old closed up
latrines. Now that was a stink! A closed up latrine takes a couple of
years to rot out and be absorbed into the surrounding soil. They had to
put up signs on the closed up ones with a date that it was closed. It got
so bad that in some of the smaller training areas they just forbid the
digging of latrines anymore, and have a portapottie contractor bring
them in as needed. In the world of training, the porta-pottie truck is
in the same category as umpire vehicles and the dominos delivery
car, "You don't see that. "

--Dale

 

[Moojundai]

point of use was my intention. On when using the facility off the rest of
the time.

The problem is that it's unattended most of the time, but still must be kept
frost free.

There isn't a need for it to be warm, just to keep it above the
freezingpoint.

 

[Moojundai]

What do you call "small"?

Small outhouse is aprox 4x2 metres

If the out house is extremely well sealed and insulated and really small,
200W could easily keep the temperature above freezing. If the outdoor temp
doesn't often stay below freezing around the clock, it would be QED.

Raising the temperature from -15F to 33F in a 6'x6'x8' room does not take
much power. Just a 12v 100W fan may be all you need. A 200w windmill
charging the batteries several hours a day can produce some real heat. The
fan blowing on the battery and charge controller can distribute the heat.

Of course. Hadn't thought about using the heat from the controller.
That must get pretty hot with all those cooling fins it's got )

 

[Moojundai]

There are some advantages to a cold out-house. Less stink.

I'd focus on heating the seat, which is source of most discomfort.

Maybe the resistance heaters that they use in leather seats of

automobiles.

Good idea!
Any idea of how much power they use?

 

[Moojundai]

"Graig Pearen" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse

Since your power resource is a 200 watt wind turbine, 200 watts is the most heat that you have
available. There is NOTHING that you can do to magically multiply it and 200 watts will do little to
warm the outhouse. So . . . Use the 12 volt power to control another heat source:

1- For a petroleum answer, and if money is no object, you could use a propane fireplace with or
without electronic controls. They're expensive though.

Fire is not an option.

2- You could use a long pipe buried below the frost line (preferably deeper) and a 12v fan to
circulate the air from the outhouse, through the pipe, and back into the outhouse. It won't be warm,
but it should be above freezing.

I can se the point!
But hov big tubing are we speeking of?

And above freezing is fine

3- Use the sun. Build a solar air collector on the side of the outhouse. That should take care of
daytime heating and you could store excess heat in buckets of water.

Solar air collector?
What is that?

What about sand? Is that a good storage?
And what about heating the water by the 12v system (the outhouse is only
aprox 4x2 metres).

4- Install a padded vinyl toilet seat like the ones made for indoor use on a flush toilet. They warm
up very fast when you sit on them and in just a few seconds, you will be comfortable as long as your
pants aren't around your ankles.

No toilets so no need )

5- Just accept it. -15 isn't all that cold. The thought of sitting on a cold toilet seat at that
temperature is worse than the doing. Mind over matter and all that. I've used an outhouse at -27c. I
didn't like it one little bit - but - I survived

Yup, you survived, but the reason for keeping it above freezing, is not
pleasing humans, but keeping the plants alive. There are plants in the
outhouse that won't survive frost, and they are the main reason for the
"frost free" project.

 

[Bughunter]

I think many of us understood your need. Here in the US, an outhouse is
a place where you go to take a shit. We call a place to grow plants a
greenhouse.

That is why there has been all of the discussion about stink and toilet
seats.

So, my comment on heating the seat is not applicable to your problem.