New Plug-in Electric Car Company

[Eeyore]

Yep, no problems 7hp/ 60mph/ a couple of minutes, while it is going
up hill.

Terrestial cars don't get measured on a hill climb, do they?

On the flat, ignoring any losses due to air resistance or tyre rolling resistance and taking a low weight of 1 tonne,
a 5kW engine will take 71 secs to get that car to 60 mph.

The sums are easy enough. I commend them to you. In fact 5kW is unlikely to even overcome air resistance at under 60
mph. More like 10kW is required IIRC. And of course the acceleration drops as the air resistance increases too.

Graham

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

It most certainly IS NOT. It's collosally subsidised and in Germany ? the elec co
has to pay individuals MORE to take their power than they charge the customer for
the electricity they generate themselves. A double subsidy if you like.

It's INSANE.

Anyone can do the REAL numbers without all those book-fiddling exercises and the
numbers aren't pretty.

See that thread "Sizing off-grid systems in Ireland" in alt.solar.photovoltaic for
some REAL numbers.

Just wishing current PV solar made sense won't make it so.

Graham

http://www.photon-consulting.com/en/true_cost_2007/index.htm

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

http://www.photon-consulting.com/en/true_cost_2007/index.htm

"The decoupling of solar power prices from their underlying costs hides
the low and rapidly falling cost structure of solar power. Today, the
»true cost« of solar power is under 25¢ per kWh in most locations and is
likely to reach 10¢ to 15¢ per kWh by 2010. This includes all costs of
manufacturing and installing solar power systems from pre-silicon (i.e.
TCS) to connected-installations without incentives or tax benefits.

Already, solar is at a cost level that makes it competitive with
residential grid prices in the OECD's highest-priced markets. It is
estimated that the cost of solar power is below the price of residential
grid electricity for 5 to 10 percent of OECD consumption (200 to 400
TWh). This equates to 150 to 300 GW of solar power, compared to only 2.7
GW of solar cell/module production in 2006.

Over the next three years, it is expected that the typical fully-loaded
cost of solar power will decrease at least 30 percent from $3.60 per W
in 2006 to $2.50 per W. In consequence, by 2010, the cost of solar will
be below the price of grid electricity for at least 50 percent of OECD
residential demand, equivalent to around 1,500 GW of solar power. This
is much larger than the 15 GW of cell/module production PHOTON
Consulting anticipates for 2010.

This conclusion is based on rigorous bottom-up analysis of the cost
structures of more than 75 solar power companies at various stages of
the supply chain. This data comes from both public disclosures
(including the financial statements of publicly-traded solar companies)
and private sources (including internal cost structures provided by
dozens of solar power companies under the condition that we share only
synthesized data). All numbers in this report were peer-reviewed by
several senior executives within the solar power sector. For further
information see the Executive Summary. "

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Well, hydrogen is an idiot energy carrier (not fuel) anyway.

Let's see if the price comes down then.

I think, in the case of LiFeP cells, its another case of demand
outstripping supply.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Well that is a fair distance ! What on earth did you find to do there ? I found it
one of the most boring places on earth.

Touring round looking at stuff.
Considering moving North of the border. I'm sick of England.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Very cool!

I'm almost tempted to take a scrap Smart Car and put in an electric
motor and some batteries.
http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/comingsoon/smart-ev.htm

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Eeyore]

It is then a case where large injections of cash into production lines
will have a drastic effect on price, yet still provide an economical return.

A: These things don't happen overnight

B: What happens to all the companies making $6/W cells ? Do they go bust thus reducing the
availability of PV solar ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Because they want to keep their competitors guessing instead of dumping
all their R&D into similar thin film tech?

I'm talking about performance figures not production technique which is
probably in the public domain anyway through patents.

If, say, they were getting 20% efficiency I expect they'd be shouting it from
the rooftops.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

http://www.photon-consulting.com/en/true_cost_2007/index.htm

I've done my own sums thanks. I trust those. Now read that damn thread.

Graham

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

I'm talking about performance figures not production technique which is
probably in the public domain anyway through patents.

If, say, they were getting 20% efficiency I expect they'd be shouting it from
the rooftops.

They are getting 14%

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

A: These things don't happen overnight

B: What happens to all the companies making $6/W cells ? Do they go bust thus reducing the
availability of PV solar ?

Maybe they do get wiped out.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Eeyore]

"The decoupling of solar power prices from their underlying costs hides
the low and rapidly falling cost structure of solar power. Today, the
»true cost« of solar power is under 25¢ per kWh in most locations

Fanciful nonsense. Do 'most locations include say, the Isle of Skye and
Arizona ?

That's all I need to read to realise it's pure bollocks.

Do you know what INSOLATION means ?

As I said before, you can't 'wish it true'.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I think, in the case of LiFeP cells, its another case of demand
outstripping supply.

So, it'll be some time then.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I'm almost tempted to take a scrap Smart Car and put in an electric
motor and some batteries.

Electric Smarts are already in production. However they're all accounted for.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

They are getting 14%

About industry standard right now. Curious where you got the info from.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

availability of PV solar ?

Maybe they do get wiped out.

I can see it happening which would radically affect the availability of PV solar. 1 step
forward, 2 steps back !

Graham

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

So, it'll be some time then.

It's a goldrush still on the gentle slope of the exponential.
Within 5 years it will be the new dotcom

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

About industry standard right now. Curious where you got the info from.

IIRC its on their site somewhere.
Either that or it was an interview with one of the founders/investors

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

I can see it happening which would radically affect the availability of PV solar. 1 step
forward, 2 steps back !

Somehow I don't see the Chinese PV industry being wiped out by someone
elses IP.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Eeyore]

It's a goldrush still on the gentle slope of the exponential.
Within 5 years it will be the new dotcom

Have you forgotten already what happened to the 'dotcoms' ?

Graham