New Plug-in Electric Car Company

[Eeyore]

Somehow I don't see the Chinese PV industry being wiped out by someone
elses IP.

China isn't capitalist ?

Graham

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

China isn't capitalist ?

No, it's a Fascist economy.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Have you forgotten already what happened to the 'dotcoms' ?

Yes - people made billions.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Yes - people made billions.

http://www.physorg.com/news140271245.html

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Fanciful nonsense. Do 'most locations include say, the Isle of Skye and
Arizona ?

That's all I need to read to realise it's pure bollocks.

Do you know what INSOLATION means ?

As I said before, you can't 'wish it true'.

Graham

Insolation for much of S Europe is around 2MWh/m^2/yr, or approx 2000hr
of full 1kW sunshine.

At $5/W installed it will collect 2kWh/yr for $5, or $2.5 per kW.
Amortise over 20 years brings that to 12.5c per kWh, which is approx
half domestic cost for mains.

In the UK average insolation is about half that. So PV at $5 per peak
Watt installed is cost competitive with mains over a 20 year period.

And when PV hits $2 per installed Watt? How about $1/W?
Still no revolution?

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[TheM]

At $5/W installed it will collect 2kWh/yr for $5, or $2.5 per kW.
Amortise over 20 years brings that to 12.5c per kWh, which is approx half domestic cost for mains.

In the UK average insolation is about half that. So PV at $5 per peak Watt installed is cost competitive with mains over a 20 year
period.

And when PV hits $2 per installed Watt? How about $1/W?
Still no revolution?

You conveniently forget a few things. You need more than just a panel,
how about inverter that might die from time to time due to lightning.
Installation cost is far from irrelevant and can be substantial.

Cost of maintenance is something most dreamers forget, 20 years is
substantial amount of time. Hail is becoming pretty big, how will the
panels like golf-ball sized hail? How about wind? It is getting severe
as well. Kid next door or an idiot might throw a rock etc etc, lots of
stuff can happen in 20 years.

You also forgot reduced performance with years.

These panels do come with warranty, but I suspect this is partly due to the
fact that so many years ahead most people won't even bother and the company
may be gone anyway.

How about cost of financing? Paying 100.000$ upfront is not equal to spending
that much slowly over a period of 20 years.

All this sends your amortization into smithereens. Wake up and smell the coffee.

M

 

[Eeyore]

No, it's a Fascist economy.

That's a new take on it for me.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Yes - people made billions.

And lost them too.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Insolation for much of S Europe is around 2MWh/m^2/yr, or approx 2000hr
of full 1kW sunshine.

Only bits of Spain, Italy , Sicily and barely a few bits of Greece.

Faking the figures doesn't impress me - I know what they really are.
http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/countries/europe/EU-Glob_opta_publications.png

At $5/W installed it will collect 2kWh/yr for $5, or $2.5 per kW.
Amortise over 20 years brings that to 12.5c per kWh, which is approx
half domestic cost for mains.

In the UK average insolation is about half that. So PV at $5 per peak
Watt installed is cost competitive with mains over a 20 year period.

Less than half. More like 750 KWh / m2 p.a.

Do your sums again with REALISTIC figures. And you've forgotten all the losses
in inverters and distribution as ever.

Graham

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

DirkBruere at NeoPax wrote:





Only bits of Spain, Italy , Sicily and barely a few bits of Greece.

Faking the figures doesn't impress me - I know what they really are.http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/countries/europe/EU-Glob_opta_public...



Less than half. More like 750 KWh / m2 p.a.

Do your sums again with REALISTIC figures. And you've forgotten all the losses
in inverters and distribution as ever.

Graham

When you can buy a 300W PC PSU retail for $6 I don't think mass
produced inverters are going to break the bank.
And whether they are 60% efficient or 80% isn't a vast concern in a
world where PV costs are falling 16% per annum.
So what happens when installed costs fall below $2 per watt? Do the
sums again using your figures.

Dirk

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

And lost them too.

Well, now you're ahead of the game.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

That's a new take on it for me.

Authoritarian regime where Capitalism is harnessed to the needs of the
state (and the power elite).

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Electric Smarts are already in production. However they're all accounted for.

Again, demand outstripping production.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Eeyore]

Again, demand outstripping production.

Or it could be said, underambitious production schedules. Having said that I
believe they're quite pricey still but it would be nice to see if the public would
bite all the same.

Maybe they're just trying to fine tune it right now ? It's only corporates that are
getting them AIUI (and at least one district council), so they get consistent
feedback. Kinda makes sense to shake it out first.

Graham

 

[krw]

So you have a monster vehicle just for those odd occasions ?

It's not such an "odd occasion". I used to go to the dump once a
week and at least that often to the HomeDespot. I'll likely be
going even more often now that I have a new house. ...and I still
have to find the dump.

and no, I don't keep it around *just* for that single use. I use
it to commute as well. Having *another* vehicle would truely be
wasteful.

 

[JosephKK]

How will they sell enough at over $100,000 each to drive the price
down?

You are forgetting the mind control of the left. There is quite a
queue already waiting for the cars that they made a large down payment
on (80% i think).

 

[JosephKK]

If electric car makes a significant dent into oil consumption, oil prices will drop
making them a less sensible option.

When millions of electric cars hit the road, the cost of electricity will rise accordingly
due to lack of supply. Can't build all those nukes over night.

Tesla is a light sedan, family car needs a lot more KWh. And a comparable range to ICE.

It will be long years before electric cars enter into mainstream.

M

Be that as it may, they may well make more sensible commuter vehicles
that large pickup trucks or SUVs.

 

[Eeyore]

and no, I don't keep it around *just* for that single use. I use
it to commute as well. Having *another* vehicle would truely be
wasteful.

How long's your commute ? I'd have thought a 'compact' for that could return good savings
as long as it's maintained well and you're not in a part of the USA where cars rust away.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

You are forgetting the mind control of the left. There is quite a
queue already waiting for the cars that they made a large down payment
on (80% i think).

You mean there's plenty of rich people !

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Be that as it may, they may well make more sensible commuter vehicles
that large pickup trucks or SUVs.

Precisely right and almost without doubt, exactly where their impact will be first fel in quantity. Especially with incentives such as
in London such as no congestion charge and a few free re-charging points.

Graham